[game_edu] Where to post academic job offers con't.

[Harrington, Timothy]

First off, excellent discussion everyone. Imagine having this same
discussion nearly twenty years ago with an accreditation body which
asked where would you get faculty? What would students be prepared for
in an industry that is failing? Why would a games and entertainment
industry want to hire people with degrees specific to their field? Etc.,
etc. Attending GDC this year allowed me the time to reflect on the
changes in the academic world relative to when we first started offering
degree programs in the entertainment fields. Early degrees focused on
the technical arts and design aspects; later we witnessed computer
science degrees branching into graphics and visualization which evolved
into interaction. Today, we have programs that provide students
opportunities and choices across the disciplines. Whether a student
wants to learn art production, design, production management, business,
programming, technical production, or quality assurance - the
opportunities are boundless.

Following this thread, we see the conversation is now happening on a
global level. Tim L. spoke to an online terminal degree, whether it be
an MFA or Ph.D. (or Ed.D for that matter) bring it on. Many universities
and higher education organizations have begun offering their bachelor
degree programs online. There are too many to mention so I won't mention
any specific schools in order to not leave someone off the list!
Following suit will be master's degrees and only then terminal degrees
next. I would much rather see terminals first. My doctoral work was in
education, in particular, adult education and education leadership using
game theory models as a mode for developing curricula and delivery
strategies in an interactive environment. Without excuses, the work is
still unfinished. The school I was doing my work through did not see the
connection, yet... There must be universities out there that do, so I
will continue as they become more prevalent.

We are talking about a paradigm shift in the industry. At one of the
first education summit meetings held at GDC, Warren Spector chewed out
academia for offering degree specific programs in game development -
why? Because the industry was still relatively young and those who
founded it had not gotten to a point in their careers where they were
knowledgeable enough to give back through teaching. Industry is now
there and ready to give up it's senior founders to classrooms and the
academy. 

Okay - sorry battery death - gotta go!!

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
              IGDA Education SIG
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Where to post academic job offers? (Casey O'Donnell)
   2. Re: Where to post academic job offers? (Tim Langdell)
   3. Re: Where to post academic job offers?. (Shawn Fredrick at 019)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:52:55 -0400
From: "Casey O'Donnell" <odonnc at rpi.edu>
Subject: Re: [game_edu] Where to post academic job offers?
To: "IGDA Game Education Listserv" <game_edu at igda.org>
Message-ID:
	<2b6b9250803200852y21ef724rf6a73e8e17cad87c at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Ultimately much of what we're talking about is thinking through the
process of professionalization. You'll notice that "design" programs
have had a very similar slow birthing process, but do exist and are
highly interdisciplinary. They might be good tools to think with.

DiGRA is more about Game Studies and though there are some of us to
who study "the industry" and practice who are part of Game Studies, we
are a minority. That isn't a bad thing, but I don't think DiGRA is
going to be the place to hammer out what these degrees and programs
should look like. It seems to me like the IGDA (and the EDU SIG in
particular) are attempting to begin this process. I'm sure it will be
in conversation with Game Studies (and DiGRA), but different.

Also I think that these programs should be in conversation with
industry, that makes sense, but much like other academic disciplines,
I don't think they need to be entirely answerable to it as well (and I
don't think anyone has said that). I think experience is good and you
learn a lot from that, but in the process of getting higher-level
degrees you do gain some skills at making meta-observations and
meta-articulations that also come from experience too. I would like to
think that leaving the game industry and surrounding software industry
to get my PhD got me something other than just a piece of paper.

Erin is also right that there are all sorts of people who have been
"studying" games and leisure (and practice) that aren't really in on
the conversation yet, but should be. We should be open to including
them too. Ultimately the hardest thing is that these programs are
going to be bigger than one person or one class. They will have to be
connected up with CS programs, Art programs, Business(?), TV/Radio
Production(?), Sociology(?), Psychology(?), Anthropology(?) ... There
are a lot of possibilities.

Ultimately the "tracks" available in a program will have to provide
students with the tools they need to get industry jobs, but they must
also go beyond that. They also have to be capable of doing what
higher-education is supposed to do with graduate programs, push the
state of the art, push the discipline(s).

There are a lot issues that go along with professionalization that
we're not talking about too, one of those is simply communication
between industry and academia. It is tough because of NDAs,
publishers, legal concerns etc. These are things that industry and
academia need to think through. You'll find many parallels between
engineering education and "real world" engineering.

Nice to see this conversation happening.

Best.
Casey

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 11:18 AM, K.Becker <becker at minkhollow.ca> wrote:

> Ian Schreiber wrote:

>  > I'll point out that a terminal degree *in* game design, by and

large,

>  > doesn't exist. You'll have to accept a terminal degree in a

"related

>  > field". Given the shortage of qualified people, an institution

should

>  > use an extremely loose definition of "related" -- Computer Science,

>  > Probability/Statistics, or Fine Art would all be fine in my book --

as

>  > long as the applicant does have some solid experience actually

>  > designing games (for reasons already pointed out).

...

>  It might be useful to look some other relatively new field to see if

>  there is anything that can be learned by seeing how they developed

their

>  discipline.

...

>  which we can build and grow. Perhaps it is time to develop an

>  association or organization that can serve a similar role to what the

>  IEEE or ACM do in CS - and two places to start *might* be DiGRA

>  (although they seem to heading in a more social science/humanities

>  direction and somewhat away from connections with industry), and the

>  IGDA. The IGDA seems the logical choice to me as this work has

already

>  been started. Given the nature of the discipline, I would say strong

>  industry ties are key, but not enough.

>

>  Work in games is highly interdisciplinary and the essential element

of

>  interdisciplinary work is that each member be an expert in

*something*.

>


-- 
Casey O'Donnell
RPI STS Department - PhD Candidate

http://homepage.mac.com/codonnell/


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:30:16 -0700
From: "Tim Langdell" <langdell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [game_edu] Where to post academic job offers?
To: "IGDA Game Education Listserv" <game_edu at igda.org>
Message-ID: <1e9f301c88a9f$4ce1f8d0$6401a8c0 at PC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


>> What I'm interested in is: what does an MFA in Game Design program

look like? 

Scott, here is what our MFA program looks like:
http://www.nu.edu/Academics/Schools/SOMC/Media/degrees/VideoGame.html

It was designed with four key 'student populations' in mind: game
industry employees seeking a terminal degree; game educators seeking a
terminal degree; film and television producers seeking to re-train for
the game industry; 'regular' graduates from any discipline who are
interested in entering the game industry in a non-entry-level position
in either game production or game design.  We also have a matching
bachelors program in Digital Entertainment and Interactive Arts for
those who need to complete their undergraduate degree before enrolling
in the MFA, and it has four concentrations ('minors') in game art &
animation, game design, cinematic arts and digital design/web
development (so is suitable for those going on to our masters in
Educational Technology or our MFA in Digital Cinema, or a career in new
media/web design etc., too).

Tim Langdell, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Lead Faculty, MFA in Videogame Production & Design
Department of Media
School of Media & Communication
National University 
tlangdell at nu.edu
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:24:35 -0400
From: "Shawn Fredrick at 019" <SFredrick at itt-tech.edu>
Subject: Re: [game_edu] Where to post academic job offers?.
To: "IGDA Game Education Listserv" <game_edu at igda.org>
Message-ID:
	<CBECD2711269AC4A9CEBFA57924D6BD09F7158 at 999datdsr008.ittesi.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Please note:

 

For all individuals in the academia that are seeking a MFA in game
design this program requires you to be present for a number of classes.
Unless I read this wrong, relocating is not an option for myself and
likely other instructors seeking an MFA.

 

"To receive a Master of Fine Arts in Video Game Production and Design,
students must complete at least 54 quarter units of graduate work, of
which a minimum of 45 quarter units must be taken in residence at
National University. 

 

Shawn Fredrick

Digital Entertainment & Game Design Chair

ITT Technical Institute

Green Bay, WI

920-662-9000 ext.173

 

________________________________

From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org] On
Behalf Of Tim Langdell
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 10:38 AM
To: IGDA Game Education Listserv
Subject: Re: [game_edu] Where to post academic job offers?.

 


>> What I'm interested in is: what does an MFA in Game Design program

look like? 

Scott, here is what our MFA program looks like:
http://www.nu.edu/Academics/Schools/SOMC/Media/degrees/VideoGame.html 

It was designed with four key 'student populations' in mind: game
industry employees seeking a terminal degree; game educators seeking a
terminal degree; film and television producers seeking to re-train for
the game industry; 'regular' graduates from any discipline who are
interested in entering the game industry in a non-entry-level position
in either game production or game design.  We also have a matching
bachelors program in Digital Entertainment and Interactive Arts for
those who need to complete their undergraduate degree before enrolling
in the MFA, and it has four concentrations ('minors') in game art &
animation, game design, cinematic arts and digital design/web
development (so is suitable for those going on to our masters in
Educational Technology or our MFA in Digital Cinema, or a career in new
media/web design etc., too).

Tim Langdell, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Lead Faculty, MFA in Videogame Production & Design
Department of Media
School of Media & Communication
National University 
tlangdell at nu.edu <mailto:tlangdell at nu.edu> 

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