[game_edu] Brenda Braithwaite's game_edu rant at GDC

[Dennis Rovere]

As an architect I would say that architects are not engineers, but  
they still design buildings.  Given the collaborative process of  
design some knowledge is important in order to positively contribute  
to feasibility of the project.  However being able to bring good ideas  
to the table does not require that you be an expert in everything.  In  
fact, sometimes not having the knowledge could allow 'out of the  
container' thinking (why does it have to be a box?) and open up  
greater creative possibilities.

D. Rovere


On 3-Mar-11, at 11:39 AM, pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu wrote:


> Consider:

>

> Do you need to be an engineer to design a sports car?

>

> I think that you do. Sure sports cars are "fun". You can't

> design a sports car without understand issues of art, style,

> and the psychology of interaction with the machine and

> technology. Nonetheless, you need to be an engineer to

> design a car because you have to understand how the technology

> "under the hood" determines the user experience. The two

> are not separable.

>

> Likewise, and for the same reasons, you need to be an engineer

> to design a game. The technology is not separate from the

> user experience.

>

> Ted Pawlicki

> Department of Computer Science

> Hajim School of Engineering

> Univerisity of Rochester

>

>

>> 'Good', yes. But there are inferences in what you are saying that I'd

>> like to clarify.

>>

>> You are describing the process as a solo one. I think that's not  

>> usual,

>> and the role of the designer in the development team is not one that

>> involves programming (at least not necessarily). Programming is not a

>> big part of the design phase at all IMO, and only once one has a  

>> clear

>> design concept can you really build anything, then iterate it.  

>> Assuming

>> that the designer holds the game in their hands until it solidifies  

>> into

>> a playable is not something I personally would do.

>>

>> JP

>>

>> On 3/3/2011 11:10 AM, Seth Sivak wrote:

>>> I think it is good for designers to be able to code.  They do not  

>>> need

>>> to be "engineers" but be able to code enough to prototype their own

>>> designs.  As soon as you add in another person the iteration loop  

>>> gets

>>> much longer, and the longer the loop the fewer iterations that can  

>>> be

>>> completed.  Once the game is out of the design phase and more into

>>> production the game design role becomes more about problem solving

>>> than pure creativity, so at that point it is fine to no longer code

>>> and let pure engineers create the production level stuff.

>>>

>>> Seth

>>>

>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 12:53 PM, jparker <jparker at ucalgary.ca

>>> <mailto:jparker at ucalgary.ca>> wrote:

>>>

>>>    Interesting rant, and she certainly has credentials.

>>>

>>>    Still, I don't think that game designers are necessarily  

>>> excellent

>>>    programmers. They need to understand limits and possibilities,  

>>> and

>>>    to be able to communicate well with programmers. Game design is

>>>    not a programming task, and game development is not a software

>>>    business. It's a business that does involve software to be sure.

>>>    Computer science programs (in my observation over only the past  

>>> 12

>>>    years) produce relatively poor game designers, as their focus is

>>>    rather different than that of most design fields. It makes as  

>>> much

>>>    sense that a CS major could design a good chair or house as  

>>> design

>>>    a good game. And in fact, the game programmers on a team

>>>    traditionally have relatively little input to the creative  

>>> process

>>>    (again, there are certainly exceptions, and things are changing  

>>> in

>>>    some places).

>>>

>>>    If a game designer has a vast knowledge of programming that could

>>>    be a good thing. I don't believe it to be a requirement. Thus the

>>>    question is 'is it worth the time needed to become an excellent

>>>    programmer'? That's hard to answer with authority.

>>>

>>>    Jim

>>>

>>>

>>>    On 3/3/2011 8:38 AM, Peter Border wrote:

>>>

>>>        For anybody else who's stuck at home this week.

>>>

>>>        http://bbrathwaite.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/built-on-a-foundation-of-code-game-edu-rant/

>>>

>>>        Peter Border

>>>        Game and Application Design Chairman

>>>        Globe University/Minnesota School of Business

>>>        1401 West 76th St

>>>        Richfield, MN 55423

>>>        pborder at msbcollege.edu <mailto:pborder at msbcollege.edu>

>>>        ________________________________________

>>>

>>>        _______________________________________________

>>>        game_edu mailing list

>>>        game_edu at igda.org <mailto:game_edu at igda.org>

>>>        http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>    --

>>>    From Hauptmann

>>>     

>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>    The inflated  style is itself a  kind of euphemism.  A mass of  

>>> Latin

>>>    words falls upon the facts like soft snow, blurring the  

>>> outlines and

>>>    covering up all  the details. The  great enemy of  clear  

>>> language is

>>>    insincerity.                                          —George  

>>> Orwell

>>>

>>>    Dr. J. R. Parker,                    Digital Media Laboratory

>>>    Professor of Play http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jparker

>>>    <http://www.ucalgary.ca/%7Ejparker>

>>>    Faculty of Fine Arts                 jparker@ ucalgary.ca

>>>    <http://ucalgary.ca>

>>>    University of Calgary                403-220-6784      AB606/ 

>>> AB611

>>>

>>>

>>>    _______________________________________________

>>>    game_edu mailing list

>>>    game_edu at igda.org <mailto:game_edu at igda.org>

>>>    http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> --

>>> +Seth

>>

>> --

>> From Hauptmann

>> --------------------------------------------------------------------

>> The inflated  style is itself a  kind of euphemism.  A mass of Latin

>> words falls upon the facts like soft snow, blurring the outlines and

>> covering up all  the details. The  great enemy of  clear language is

>> insincerity.                                          —George Orwell

>>

>> Dr. J. R. Parker,                    Digital Media Laboratory

>> Professor of Play                    http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jparker

>> Faculty of Fine Arts                 jparker@ ucalgary.ca

>> University of Calgary                403-220-6784      AB606/AB611

>>

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