[games_access] Research questions about games helping veterans

hinn at uiuc.edu hinn at uiuc.edu
Mon Nov 19 08:26:39 EST 2007 

Definitely neither of you are dumb -- who can keep up with the complexity of sub-units of sub-units of parts of branches of government that overlap each other but yet are important to keep separate or we risk punishing the sub-unit that is trying to do the work that is needed? Ahhhhh...

Michelle

---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:14:20 -0500
>From: Ioo <ioo at ablegamers.com>  
>Subject: Re: [games_access] Research questions about games helping veterans  
>To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
>
>Ben, I would never call you dumb, nor imply it. I just know from the 
>work I do (all I can say about that) that there is far more cash to be 
>had in the VA at the moment. If anyone is dumb it is me, I would not 
>know what a grant application looks like if it came up and beat me up in 
>a dark hallway.
>
>I just say to remember the VA, because to most that are not in the 
>system (like me) they think that one is an arm of the other and they 
>lump them together. When the Walter Reed scandal broke, all over the 
>news it was about how the VA failed the vets, Walter Reed is not a VA 
>hospital, it is DOD.
>
>So please do not take my post as anything more than a crusade of mine to 
>make sure that the few things I count on to not go down with the ship.
>
>.mark
>
>Ben Sawyer wrote:
>> Thanks Mark - I did understand they were two different agencies but I 
>> made the mistake of only focusing on one.  Dumb of me.
>>
>> My only reason for saying DoD is that they do have research funds that 
>> filter to the two big distributors of medical research funds which is 
>> ONR and TATRC and I have good contacts at each.  But you're right we 
>> should hit up Veterans.  I also used to work for one of the 
>> congressmen who sits on the Veteran's affairs committee so I need to 
>> contact him - I saw him last week ironically on a plane trip back to 
>> Maine but we had about 2 minutes to catch up before it took off.
>>
>> I think Dave Rejeski at Woodrow has also talked with Veteran's Affairs 
>> but not in this vein so I'll check with him.
>>
>> - Ben
>>
>> On Nov 18, 2007, at 11:00 AM, Ioo wrote:
>>
>>> Ben,
>>>
>>> If you are really looking for a grant in this area, I would not go to 
>>> the DOD for it, I would go to the VA. For the most part the DOD 
>>> stabilizes vets, determins there ability to contune there service and 
>>> if that results in discharge the VA takes it from there.  I know this 
>>> because I am a Disabled Vet, disabled on the job (non-combat), and I 
>>> work here in Washington DC (and that is all I am going to say about 
>>> that).
>>>
>>> The VA has money to give out, they are the ones that take care of 
>>> Vets long term and they are the ones that would love to get a hold of 
>>> things like we are speaking of. The DOD would use would benefit from 
>>> these items, but they almost aways come out of the VA.
>>>
>>> For all of those that care. The VA and the DOD are not the same. They 
>>> are 2 completely different agencies with different missions and 
>>> different budgets. Best way to think about this is DOD Medical 
>>> stabilization, VA is maintenance.
>>>
>>> Just a thought
>>> Mark Barlet
>>> AbleGamers.com
>>>
>>> Ben Sawyer wrote:
>>>> The likely approach for DoD is an SBIR grant - those must involve 
>>>> commercialization but such a path for one switch is easily done.  
>>>> The issue for DoD SBIRs is they are US based so we'd need a u.s. 
>>>> based organization to submit for one (provided there is a call for 
>>>> one to begin with which is another story).
>>>>
>>>> In the UK such a similar grant would come from the MoD.
>>>>
>>>> There will be many different types of schemes for 
>>>> grants/support/commercialization of course.  The conference should 
>>>> explore things like this.
>>>>
>>>> - Ben
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 18, 2007, at 6:11 AM, Barrie Ellis wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am very anti-war - and really don't like a lot of the 
>>>>> hyper-realistic FPS a lot of these soldiers seem to like playing 
>>>>> reading reports. These are pretty nasty games in my eyes. Give me 
>>>>> Uo Poko any day of the week. This said, I'd happily see Department 
>>>>> of Defence money taken for building accessible controllers for 
>>>>> giving people some fun who can't otherwise. Do you think this is 
>>>>> likely to happen? What might be the best approach?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have had a few people approach me stating that they are 
>>>>> supporting soliers that have lost limbs, mostly looking towards one 
>>>>> handed controllers as a solution to gaming. If we could get the 
>>>>> DragonPlus RPG DuoCon2 one-handed controller back into production, 
>>>>> this would aid a lot of one armed gamers. Unfortunately, we'd need 
>>>>> to have to guarantee a lot of sales 
>>>>> (http://www.ncsxshop.com/cgi-bin/shop/SAM-PS2RDC2.html - National 
>>>>> Console Support suggest 20,000 sales) to see this likely to happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> Although Ben Heck seems to be having some success in getting a 
>>>>> one-handed controller manufactured: 
>>>>> http://gameaccessibility.blogspot.com/2007/10/access-controller-finds-manufacturer.html 
>>>>> - It does not look to be the ideal solution for all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Barrie
>>>>> www.OneSwitch.org.uk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ben Sawyer" <bsawyer at dmill.com>
>>>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" 
>>>>> <games_access at igda.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 10:48 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [games_access] Research questions about games helping 
>>>>> veterans
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> There is some emerging evidence that virtual environments help  
>>>>>> veterans with PTSD as long as it's part of a very scaffold and  
>>>>>> supported therapy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The more specific question might be are some of these cases (the 
>>>>>> non- PTSD induced ones) a result of veterans who suffer pain and 
>>>>>> suffering  due to disabilities, reduced social atmosphere, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PTSD is a very debilitating problem but it's well worked on by 
>>>>>> others like Skip Rizzo, Russ Shilling, and others in the 
>>>>>> cyberpsychology realm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In terms of drugs and alcohol while there are ideas for games 
>>>>>> that  help here they are more suited to teens, etc. then well 
>>>>>> worn  veterans.  There was some work by the Marines to use a game 
>>>>>> for anti- drug efforts in the Marines - I need to find out more 
>>>>>> about that  project and if it produced results.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The issue of whether games work or not or especially vs. other 
>>>>>> media/ processes or within them is a big part of some of the major 
>>>>>> funding  RWJF is providing to the games for health community 
>>>>>> through Health  Games Research.  However, it's hard to do 
>>>>>> comparative media studies  and it's likely we might not know for 
>>>>>> sometime these differences.   It's also more likely that we parse 
>>>>>> using games vs. not based on the  goals we have and how they map 
>>>>>> well to things games are accepted as  doing quite well such as 
>>>>>> motivation and distance socialization.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where the SIG and its members might do well in looking at veteran 
>>>>>> issues/defense needs is in adaptation of controllers and creation 
>>>>>> of games for people who have suffered various ambulatory injuries 
>>>>>> and  for people with rehabilitation needs from head injuries, 
>>>>>> etc.  These  would obviously have crossover use to civilians 
>>>>>> suffering from the  same issues be they by birth or accidents not 
>>>>>> involving warfare.   Unfortunately it is likely the DoD has more 
>>>>>> $$ more easily available  to tackle these issues then do private 
>>>>>> civilian side sources.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Ben
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Nov 17, 2007, at 3:58 PM, Reid Kimball wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michelle's recent post about veterans seeking relief through games
>>>>>>> reminded me I saw this the other day. Truly staggering and mind
>>>>>>> boggling the numbers of veterans that aren't getting the help they
>>>>>>> need.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/11/15/cbs-news-investigates- 
>>>>>>> shocking-rate-of-veteran-suicides/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "In 2005 alone, 125 veterans committed suicide each week and of the
>>>>>>> more than 88,000 vets returning from Iraq, more than 28% of them 
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> experienced mental health problems."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is definitely an area we need to research, how much can games
>>>>>>> really help depressed veterans? Will it help them? Will it be abused
>>>>>>> like drugs and alcohol? Is it THE solution or is it best to include
>>>>>>> gaming as part of a larger therapy?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Reid
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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.......................................
these are mediocre times and people are 
losing hope. it's hard for many people 
to believe that there are extraordinary 
things inside themselves, as well as 
others. i hope you can keep an open 
mind.
 -- "unbreakable"
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