[games_access] language thread, was The Human Controller
Barrie Ellis
barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk
Mon Jun 16 03:59:04 EDT 2008
No problem, Thomas...
A pretty exhaustive forum post here on handicapped/disabled:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbouch/F2322273?thread=3651003&skip=0&show=20
And some evidence against the definition as being linked to "cap in hand"
begging.
http://www.snopes.com/language/offense/handicap.asp
Best to refer to people as people I guess (cue Depeche Mode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNaZDVHmums and a big grin)...
Barrie
www.OneSwitch.org.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Westin" <thomas at pininteractive.com>
To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: [games_access] language thread, was The Human Controller
> is there some article / web pag ge that describes this problem with the
> Handicap terminology?
>
> would be great to have as reference
>
> /thomas
>
> On 14 jun 2008, at 21.23, Reid Kimball wrote:
>
>> I agree with Barrie and I'd like to expand the idea of "right to fun"
>> to something bigger. The right to fun is one part of a larger right to
>> participate in society. As games become more culturally relevant to a
>> society, they will help us examine and participate in the shaping of
>> who we are as people. If we neglect to include everyone in this
>> examination and participation, we won't become the kind of society we
>> ought to become.
>>
>> -Reid
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 14, 2008 at 1:02 AM, Barrie Ellis
>> <barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Again - I would say that in the UK - the word Handicap is now generally
>>> tied
>>> up with a lot of negative baggage. Many believe (wrongly or rightly)
>>> that
>>> it's linked to "cap in hand" begging - others consider it an inherently
>>> negative word anyway. As Reid said - if you remove the barriers from a
>>> "disabled person" - in context - you'll just describe them as a
>>> person...
>>> That's what we're aiming at - smashing the barriers.
>>>
>>> Also - the W.H.O. is a medical based organisation. Accessible gaming to
>>> me
>>> will always be about social rights - and not about medical conditions.
>>> A
>>> gamer has these abilities - so how can they play game X,Y,Z? Am I
>>> repeating
>>> myself?! (I'll shut up after this for a bit I promise): The right to
>>> fun.
>>>
>>> Barrie
>>> www.OneSwitch.org.uk
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eelke Folmer"
>>> <eelke.folmer at gmail.com
>>> >
>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" <games_access at igda.org
>>> >
>>> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 5:39 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [games_access] language thread, was The Human Controller
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi Thomas,
>>>>
>>>> I never really thought about the difference but your taxonomy seems
>>>> intuitive and straightforward.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers Eelke
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 12/06/2008, Thomas Westin <thomas at pininteractive.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> The World Health Organization has a definition which makes a
>>>>> difference
>>>>> between disability and handicap, where disability is related to the
>>>>> individual, while handicap is related to the environment. In other
>>>>> words,
>>>>> if
>>>>> you're in a wheel chair, you are handicapped in a building with high
>>>>> thresholds. By removing the thresholds (read: making it accessible)
>>>>> you
>>>>> remove the handicap, but you are still disabled.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that is a good distinction
>>>>>
>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>> Thomas
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11 jun 2008, at 18.59, Barrie Ellis wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Language is a contentious issue and I respect that you have a
>>>>> different
>>>>> opinion, Matthias. I just personally feel that certain phrases don't
>>>>> particularly tie up with disability rights - which is what the Game
>>>>> Accessibility movement is all about to my mind. I still feel that you
>>>>> are
>>>>> approaching this field from a Medical standpoint - rather that a
>>>>> Social
>>>>> rights stand point.
>>>>>
>>>>> Barrie
>>>>> www.OneSwitch.org.uk
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Matthias Troup
>>>>> To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 5:28 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [games_access] language thread, was The Human Controller
>>>>>
>>>>> Kestrel, Perhaps I (and others) read it as this: If these are people
>>>>> without disabilities in the offensive sense... who aren't suffering
>>>>> in
>>>>> their
>>>>> environment... what would they need help with, and why would anyone
>>>>> be
>>>>> helping? I think Eitans choice of words is fine since his cause was
>>>>> a
>>>>> constructive effort for accessibility. At least, I feel hints of
>>>>> emotion
>>>>> help make any thesis a little less dry.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: kestrell at panix.com
>>>>>> To: games_access at igda.org
>>>>>> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2008 11:57:14 -0400
>>>>>> Subject: [games_access] language thread, was The Human Controller
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding appropriate language, I'm not sure I see where you are
>>>>> disagreeing
>>>>>> with my original post. I used the word "disability," and the site
>>>>>> you
>>>>> linked
>>>>>> to, which the wonderful BBC online disability magazine, Ouch!, also
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> uses
>>>>> the
>>>>>> word "disability." I totally agree with the list provided in the >
>>>>>> article
>>>>> as
>>>>>> being offensive words, including the word "special."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Granted the fifth day of ninety degree weather here in Boston is >
>>>>>> melting
>>>>> my
>>>>>> brain, but what did I miss?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Barrie Ellis" <barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk>
>>>>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"
>>>>>> <games_access at igda.org
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 2:54 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [games_access] The Human Controller
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Eitan,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I actually disagree with Kestrell's "people first stand point" with
>>>>>>> "people with disabilities" (although I did used to use it myself).
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>> long since prefered "disabled people" linking to people being > >
>>>>>>> disabled
>>>>> by
>>>>>>> society / the inaccessibility of their environment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Take a look through this item:
>>>>>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3708576.stm.
>>>>>>> Plus this on the Social Model and Medical Model of diability:
>>>>>>>
>>>>> http://inclusion.uwe.ac.uk/inclusionweek/articles/socmod.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Barrie
>>>>>>> www.OneSwitch.org.uk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Kestrell" <kestrell at panix.com>
>>>>>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > >
>>>>>>> <games_access at igda.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 11:42 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [games_access] The Human Controller
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eitan,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I seem to have missed your original post in which you posted the >
>>>>>>>>>> link,
>>>>>>>> but here are some thoughts on language and disability:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Certain words and phrases tend to really be button words, as in
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> typically hit many readers' buttons, and the phrase "suffering
>>>>>>>> from"
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> definitely one of those phrases. Often the phrase can be deleted
>>>>>>>> altogether, leaving the phrase "people with disabilities" or
>>>>>>>> "people
>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> visual impairments" or "visually-impaired gamers," etc. The
>>>>>>>> informal
>>>>> rule
>>>>>>>> is that the individuals you are discussing are "people first," as
>>>>>>>> mentioned in this online article
>>>>>>>> http://iod.unh.edu/press.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and here is a link which includes links to writing about
>>>>>>>> disability,
>>>>>>>> language to use in interviewing people with disabilities, and more
>>>>>>>> resources
>>>>>>>> http://ncdj.org/links.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Eitan Glinert" <glinert at mit.edu>
>>>>>>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List" > >>
>>>>>>>> <games_access at igda.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 4:29 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [games_access] The Human Controller
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wow, awesome! Thanks for the feedback, I think you are the only >
>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> outside of MIT to have actually read this. Comments below.
>>>>>>>>> Eitan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 6:48 PM, Barrie Ellis
>>>>>>>>> <barrie.ellis at oneswitch.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Eitan,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've read through your thesis "The Human Controller"...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Had these thoughts...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Didn't like some of the language used. "Suffering from -
>>>>>>>>>> impaired
>>>>>>>>>> people -
>>>>>>>>>> handicapped". All pretty crusty old terms with negative > >>>>
>>>>>>>>>> connotations.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> EG: Point taken. Any suggestions for better terms?<<<
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not sure about the controller analysis in Chapter 1 - there's
>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>> Driving
>>>>>>>>>> controllers and light guns since the 70's for many games >
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>> consoles -
>>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>>> are fairly natural feeling interfaces and have been popular in
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> past.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> EG: I guess in chapter one I'm trying to draw general strokes
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>>> UIs, saying that they generally weren't adopted by a
>>>>>>>>>>>> mainstream
>>>>>>>>>>>> audience. Perhaps I should make this more explicit, though<<<
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Even if it is possible to remap controls it is not always >
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>> advisable
>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>>>>> so. Frequently part of the fun of a game is the interface, and
>>>>> changing
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> without forethought is potentially detrimental. In the pervious
>>>>> example
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> Wii Sports tennis part of the fun is actually swinging the >
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>> controller
>>>>>>>>>> as if
>>>>>>>>>> it were a racket. If this functionality were changed to pressing
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> button
>>>>>>>>>> then much of the game's charm and fun would be lost.". I'm not >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happy
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> this statement personally - I'd like to see multiple-layers of
>>>>>>>>>> accessibility
>>>>>>>>>> (much like Dimitris "Parallel Universes" theory). Why can't a
>>>>>>>>>> four
>>>>>>>>>> player
>>>>>>>>>> game of Wii Sports allow player 1 to use the Wii-remote - player
>>>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> use a
>>>>>>>>>> standard JoyPad - player 3 to use a single button and player 4
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>> adapted Wii-remote with blue-tooth stereo head-set to relay
>>>>>>>>>> personalised
>>>>>>>>>> timing sounds (think of live singers having a click track that >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>>>> they can
>>>>>>>>>> hear) in an ideal world? You mention this type of thing later as
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>> it's a
>>>>>>>>>> good thing - so I find this early statement a bit overly
>>>>>>>>>> negative.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> EG: I agree with what you say, which is why I discuss such
>>>>>>>>>>>> themes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> chapter 2. I guess the reason I have that negative statement >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> early
>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> is because I wanted to acknowledge the tradeoff early on, even
>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>>>> I get to the sections on tradeoffs. I also wanted to make it >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clear
>>>>>>>>>>>> that I don't feel accessibility is a magic bullet, even if it
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> almost always applicable.<<<
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Games have evolved tremendously over the past few decades, as
>>>>>>>>>> advancements
>>>>>>>>>> in technology have led to amazingly realistic and engaging >
>>>>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>> offerings,
>>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>>>>>>> shifts in player demographics indicate the widespread popularity
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> video
>>>>>>>>>> games. Despite these changes many different disabled groups are
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>>>> unable
>>>>>>>>>> to play most titles due to inaccessible UIs.." - Would argue
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>>>>>> agree that most Blind gamers would be in that boat (those with >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>> little
>>>>>>>>>> usable sight) - but a better statement might have been "many
>>>>> different
>>>>>>>>>> disabled groups are faced with deeply frustrating barriers with
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> many
>>>>>>>>>> main-stream games". I know Deaf gamers might struggle at certain
>>>>> points
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> certain games - and gamers using a single button frequently have
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> rely
>>>>>>>>>> upon a friend/helper to take on extra controls and so on - but >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>> still play.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> EG: Good suggestion, thanks! I might make a change to the >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> argument
>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the online version.<<<
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chaper 2
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Game controls should be as simple as possible, but no
>>>>>>>>>> simpler." -
>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>>>> really sure what you're saying here.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> EG: Simplicity is good, but you don't want to go overboard.
>>>>>>>>>>>> You
>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> want to cut out critical game elements or features in the name
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> "cleaner" UI. Maybe that's not clear? <<<
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2.5 "a rhythm title like Guitar Hero which focuses on music will
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>> for the hearing impaired, and it is probably not possible to
>>>>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>>>> accessible version." - I don't agree with this. Deaf gamers as a
>>>>> whole
>>>>>>>>>> covers a very broad range of hearing ability. There will be many
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deaf
>>>>>>>>>> gamers
>>>>>>>>>> perfectly able to play Guitar Hero. Even those unable to hear at
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>>>>> enjoy such a game - did you see Deaf Gamers 8.5/10 review score:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.deafgamers.com/07reviews_a/gh3_x360.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> EG: Wow, I flubbed this one. I'm going to have to change the
>>>>> language
>>>>>>>>>>>> on this. Good catch, thanks!<<<
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But aside from this, I frequently found myself in full agreement
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> majority of your thesis - and did enjoy reading it. Thanks for >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> publicly available.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Great, thanks so much!<<<
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Barrie
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eitan Glinert" > >>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <glinert at mit.edu>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List"
>>>>> <games_access at igda.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 10:50 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [games_access] The Human Controller
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Good news, everyone! In a surprise twist, I'm graduating! I
>>>>>>>>>>> know
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>> lot
>>>>>>>>>>> of you are interested in my thesis, so you can check it out at
>>>>>>>>>>> web.mit.edu/glinert/www/thesis . I'm happy to answer questions
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>>> it, and I welcome feedback (both positive and negative).
>>>>>>>>>>> Special
>>>>>>>>>>> thanks to Dimitris, Eelke, Michelle, and Reid for all their
>>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>>> answering my questions over the months.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In case you're not sure whether it is worth reading, here's
>>>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> info:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> TITLE: The Human Controller: Usability and Accessibility in
>>>>>>>>>>> Video
>>>>> Game
>>>>>>>>>>> Interfaces
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ABSTRACT:
>>>>>>>>>>> Despite the advances in user interfaces and the new gaming >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> genres,
>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> all people can play all games - disabled people are frequently
>>>>>>>>>>> excluded from game play experiences. On the one hand this adds
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> list of discriminations disabled people face in our society, >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while
>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> the other hand actively including them potentially results in >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games
>>>>>>>>>>> that are better for everyone. The largest hurdle to involvement
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> user interface, or how a player interacts with the game. >
>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Analyzing
>>>>>>>>>>> usability and adhering to accessibility design principles makes
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> both possible and practical to develop fun and engaging game
>>>>>>>>>>> user
>>>>>>>>>>> interfaces that a broader range of the population can play. To
>>>>>>>>>>> demonstrate these principles we created AudiOdyssey, a PC
>>>>>>>>>>> rhythm
>>>>> game
>>>>>>>>>>> that is accessible to both sighted and non-sighted audiences.
>>>>>>>>>>> By
>>>>>>>>>>> following accessibility guidelines we incorporated a novel
>>>>> combination
>>>>>>>>>>> of features resulting in a similar play experience for both >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> groups.
>>>>>>>>>>> Testing AudiOdyssey yielded useful insights into which
>>>>>>>>>>> interface
>>>>>>>>>>> elements work and which don't work for all users. Finally a
>>>>>>>>>>> case
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> made for considering accessibility when designing future
>>>>>>>>>>> versions
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> gaming user interfaces, and speculative scenarios are presented
>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> what such interfaces might look like.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Eitan
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list
>>>>>>>>> games_access at igda.org
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> games_access mailing list
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> games_access mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> games_access mailing list
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Eelke Folmer Assistant Professor
>>>> Department of CS&E/171
>>>> University of Nevada Reno, Nevada 89557
>>>> Game interaction design www.eelke.com
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> _______________________________________________
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