[games_access] Game Accessibility Law Discussion
BlazeEagle
blazeeagle at suddenlink.net
Sun Oct 31 20:24:33 EDT 2010
Well, I'm against UN enforcement of a game accessibility law mainly because under a veil of world wide cooperation, the UN seems to want an eventual single world government.
Please understand that I'm NOT an isolationist by any means, but There's just such a wide variety of cultural differences around the world that a world wide game accessibility law seems not impossible but difficult to accomplish.
A US sponsored game accessibility law seems the best option. Then, If/When it's successful in the US, The rest of the world could choose to adopt it.
Since disabilities are so varied, Before a law would truly become a reality, There needs to be a basic & easily understandable overview of what this law would accomplish. Some disabled people are so confrontational & pushy that government might be leery of tackling this issue, So a non-confrontational overview would be best.
This overview doesn't need to be extensive, Just enough so that the issue is approachable & understandable.
Am I making sense?
Aaron
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: UN Convention -> national rights? (Michelle Hinn)
2. Re: UN Convention -> national rights? (Sandra Uhling)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 13:10:43 -0400
From: Michelle Hinn <hinn at uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: [games_access] UN Convention -> national rights?
To: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List <games_access at igda.org>
Message-ID: <97DCA7EB-93A9-441A-9044-D9811B5DC6E7 at uiuc.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hey Sandra,
The UN convention is not something that will necessarily apply to any country's government. A lot of people on the list who are from the US have strong arguments against why accessible gaming law should not exist. I'm not necessarily one of them -- in my opinion an awareness campaign is never a bad thing.
To make something into law in the US will need to go WAY beyond anything the UN decides.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "action" and "law?" Again, I'm not saying that awareness campaigns are bad -- just that government enforcement and lawmaking is hard. The UN may have a Convention but it's not something that will mean that a developer needs to worry about it. :(
Michelle
On Oct 30, 2010, at 11:35 AM, Sandra Uhling wrote:
> Hi Michelle,
>
> well that is changing now. Thanks to the UN Convention.
> But what is going to be changed will depend on what we do.
>
> When Germany signed the protocol they thought they do not need to do
> anything.
> Well, when you see the action plans it is the other way round :-)
> Now it is the time to get this action into real action.
>
> But I do not have enough knowledge to write very good request. :-(
> Of course we can only ask for laws for accessibility,
> when we ask also for support for game designers.
>
> Instead of getting only funds when you realize accessibility,
> the companies should be supported to develop more accessible games.
> Video games cannot be barrier free, they can be poor of barriers.
> That is something important to say to the government.
>
> Best regards,
> Sandra
>
>
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im
> Auftrag von Michelle Hinn
> Gesendet: Samstag, 30. Oktober 2010 15:58
> An: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> Betreff: Re: [games_access] UN Convention -> national rights?
>
> Hey Sandra,
>
> We do have some laws but the trouble is that the ones we have are more
> focused on equal opportunity in the workplace for the disabled and such.
> Given that years ago a law passed requiring "open captioning" (the captions
> are either on the back of a movie theatre chair or on a hand held device)
> for people who are deaf that has MAYBE only happened in a handful of movie
> theaters in the country, I don't have much hope that a law requiring
> videogame accessibility would ever happen. As I said, the movie industry has
> to provide the open captioning YET no on enforces it...
>
> And our political climate right now is getting very hostile towards
> videogames, especially as our mid-term elections are in just a few days --
> the more conservative that get into office tend to see videogames ONLY as
> evil -- they would rather them not exist at all for anyone, not just the
> disabled.
>
> Michelle
>
> On Oct 30, 2010, at 8:27 AM, Sandra Uhling wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> the UN Convention is great. But at the moment it is only for the states.
>> The states have to change their national laws that it effects also
>> companies.
>>
>> At the moment we have the possibility to give some feedbacks for the
> German
>> action plan.
>> What kind of law do we need that it effects also companies?
>>
>> E.g. PS3 console and not accepting special controller
>>
>> How should a law look like that the gamer can request an update because
> they
>> are discriminated?
>> It is also important that this will work, also when there are mistakes in
>> the request.
>>
>> Someone an idea?
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Sandra
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 10:09:35 +0100
From: "Sandra Uhling" <sandra_uhling at web.de>
Subject: Re: [games_access] UN Convention -> national rights?
To: "'IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List'"
<games_access at igda.org>
Message-ID: <000301cb78db$5723b540$056b1fc0$@de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi,
the question is how will these new laws look like?
It is not a question do we get them. We will get them. (Germany)
And unfortunately the people who make this new laws do not know anything
about games.
The question is how can we avoid risk and how can we use the chances?
At the moment the requests of person with disabilities are like:
* funds only when project realize barrier free things.
* "Accessiblity" will be part of apprenticeship and study
* Control for Accessibility
* ...
I would say the game developer should worry about the action plan in
Germany.
Every country who ratified the UN Convention have to make sure that also
companies realize accessibility.
In think the term "about us not without us" should also be for people
who have to realize it. So they should ask all branches for feedback.
Here are my notes:
* we are not able to realize the request
** because we do not have information how to avoid barriers
** games cannot be "barrier free"
** in some special cases, games do not have to be "barrier free"
** barriers are often the key of a game, it is not easy to find a solution
** to make games more accessible we need more time, information, support,
etc.
So what the game branch need is:
* a project (Game Accessibility lab) that writes the information for game
designer and game developer
* we need more support, funds to realize more accessible games
* we need minimal standards, that can be risen step by step, it cannot be
"barrier free"
* the game designer and game developer need support to learn about it and to
realize it.
Best regards,
Sandra
-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org] Im
Auftrag von Michelle Hinn
Gesendet: Samstag, 30. Oktober 2010 19:11
An: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
Betreff: Re: [games_access] UN Convention -> national rights?
Hey Sandra,
The UN convention is not something that will necessarily apply to any
country's government. A lot of people on the list who are from the US have
strong arguments against why accessible gaming law should not exist. I'm not
necessarily one of them -- in my opinion an awareness campaign is never a
bad thing.
To make something into law in the US will need to go WAY beyond anything the
UN decides.
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean by "action" and "law?" Again, I'm
not saying that awareness campaigns are bad -- just that government
enforcement and lawmaking is hard. The UN may have a Convention but it's not
something that will mean that a developer needs to worry about it. :(
Michelle
On Oct 30, 2010, at 11:35 AM, Sandra Uhling wrote:
> Hi Michelle,
>
> well that is changing now. Thanks to the UN Convention.
> But what is going to be changed will depend on what we do.
>
> When Germany signed the protocol they thought they do not need to do
> anything.
> Well, when you see the action plans it is the other way round :-)
> Now it is the time to get this action into real action.
>
> But I do not have enough knowledge to write very good request. :-(
> Of course we can only ask for laws for accessibility,
> when we ask also for support for game designers.
>
> Instead of getting only funds when you realize accessibility,
> the companies should be supported to develop more accessible games.
> Video games cannot be barrier free, they can be poor of barriers.
> That is something important to say to the government.
>
> Best regards,
> Sandra
>
>
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: games_access-bounces at igda.org [mailto:games_access-bounces at igda.org]
Im
> Auftrag von Michelle Hinn
> Gesendet: Samstag, 30. Oktober 2010 15:58
> An: IGDA Games Accessibility SIG Mailing List
> Betreff: Re: [games_access] UN Convention -> national rights?
>
> Hey Sandra,
>
> We do have some laws but the trouble is that the ones we have are more
> focused on equal opportunity in the workplace for the disabled and such.
> Given that years ago a law passed requiring "open captioning" (the
captions
> are either on the back of a movie theatre chair or on a hand held device)
> for people who are deaf that has MAYBE only happened in a handful of movie
> theaters in the country, I don't have much hope that a law requiring
> videogame accessibility would ever happen. As I said, the movie industry
has
> to provide the open captioning YET no on enforces it...
>
> And our political climate right now is getting very hostile towards
> videogames, especially as our mid-term elections are in just a few days --
> the more conservative that get into office tend to see videogames ONLY as
> evil -- they would rather them not exist at all for anyone, not just the
> disabled.
>
> Michelle
>
> On Oct 30, 2010, at 8:27 AM, Sandra Uhling wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> the UN Convention is great. But at the moment it is only for the states.
>> The states have to change their national laws that it effects also
>> companies.
>>
>> At the moment we have the possibility to give some feedbacks for the
> German
>> action plan.
>> What kind of law do we need that it effects also companies?
>>
>> E.g. PS3 console and not accepting special controller
>>
>> How should a law look like that the gamer can request an update because
> they
>> are discriminated?
>> It is also important that this will work, also when there are mistakes in
>> the request.
>>
>> Someone an idea?
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Sandra
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> games_access mailing list
>> games_access at igda.org
>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>
> _______________________________________________
> games_access mailing list
> games_access at igda.org
> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
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