[SBE] Ultrasonic Leak Detection

[McGlothen, Darryl]

Chemists you guys are NOT! Oxygen does not 'burn'. Other things burn in
the presence of oxygen. Hence the term oxidization. Iron 'burns' in the
presence of oxygen, becoming rust. Wood burns in the presence of oxygen
(at higher temps) leaving a pile of chemical and mineral oxides
(commonly called ash).

Darryl 


> -----Original Message-----

> From: sbe-bounces at sbe.org [mailto:sbe-bounces at sbe.org] On 

> Behalf Of Reynolds, Paul (CXR-San Antonio)

> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:27 PM

> To: sbe member discussion mail list

> Subject: Re: [SBE] Ultrasonic Leak Detection

> 

> Stop and think.....use a Nitrogen generator.  Oxygen burns.  Duh.

> Regarding leak detection...I used to pressurize the line with 

> Freon and then use a Freon sniffer.  Worked GREAT!  Don't 

> over pressurize on a hot day though.  

> 

> Paul K. Reynolds, C.E.

>  paul.reynolds at coxradio.com

>  

> -----Original Message-----

> From: sbe-bounces at sbe.org [mailto:sbe-bounces at sbe.org] On 

> Behalf Of Chris Spacone

> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 4:24 PM

> To: 'sbe member discussion mail list'

> Subject: Re: [SBE] Ultrasonic Leak Detection

> 

> Ron,

> 

> We had a compressor on it and it was feeding a manifold with 

> a desiccant canister in line. I agree, humping around 200 

> size bottles of N2 might eventually give me Popeye arms but 

> I'd rather not find out.

> 

> Deal is the boss is convinced that we can/should/will find 

> the leak so that we can continue to use N2 instead of a 

> compressor. I really can't argue with his reasoning; the leak 

> really shouldn't be there so find and fix it I shall! 

> 

> Chris

> 

> 

> 

> -----Original Message-----

> From: sbe-bounces at sbe.org [mailto:sbe-bounces at sbe.org] On 

> Behalf Of Ron Bailer

> Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:14 PM

> To: 'sbe member discussion mail list'

> Subject: Re: [SBE] Ultrasonic Leak Detection

> 

> Another option would be a small de-hydrator.  Makes current, 

> and future, leaks a moot point.  Or if not moot, at least 

> time shifts them to when you have time to deal with them 

> (yah...right.)  I really liked my desiccant based Andrews 

> unit, and it wasn't a whole lot more than an ultrasonic leak detector.

> And trust me a can of silica gel is a LOT easier to carry 

> than a tank of dry N2.  Just don't use the oven to dry it 

> when the wife is around.

> 

> Ron  

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Bailer Applied Engineering

>        www.bailer.com

> 

> Ron at Bailer.com

> Voice:  (970) 416-6483

> 

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: sbe-bounces at sbe.org [mailto:sbe-bounces at sbe.org] On Behalf Of

> Chris

> > Spacone

> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 2:48 PM

> > To: 'sbe member discussion mail list'

> > Subject: Re: [SBE] Ultrasonic Leak Detection

> > 

> > No worries Bill. I hadn't given any real thought to pulling a vacuum

> on

> > the

> > waveguide, just drawing a parallel with another leak 

> detection method

> that

> > I

> > used in another life.

> > 

> > It is good to know that the ultrasonic method isn't without merit.

> Cowboy

> > brings up some good points but I was thinking the background noise

> issue

> > shouldn't be an insurmountable hurdle. As I understand the 

> process the 

> > ultrasonic noise made by the leak is mixed (heterodyned is the

> literature

> > term used by some vendors. Right up our alley, eh?) and 

> downconverted

> to

> > something we can hear.

> > 

> > Right now the system is blowing nitrogen into the atmosphere so I'm

> hoping

> > that it at least is keeping the critters and humidity out. But this

> cannot

> > continue long as swapping out N2 cylinders will get expensive and

> annoying

> > (in various portions of each).

> > 

> > 73,

> > Chris

> > 

> > 

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: sbe-bounces at sbe.org [mailto:sbe-bounces at sbe.org] On Behalf Of

> Bill

> > Whitt

> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 10:42 AM

> > To: 'sbe member discussion mail list'

> > Subject: Re: [SBE] Ultrasonic Leak Detection

> > 

> > 

> > This would be a tough call for me if I had to make a 

> decision between 

> > vacuum or pressure leak detection. I know that vacuum leak 

> detection 

> > is the

> most

> > accurate without a doubt ... and the most expensive to 

> boot. The thing 

> > that you have to realize is when you have leaks, and have a vacuum 

> > system

> that

> > is

> > able to draw a substantially sized vacuum, the vacuum method is

> probably

> > going to pull the most junk into your waveguide ... vice 

> pressurizing

> the

> > waveguide keeping junk out. Not only that ... if the o-rings in the 

> > flanges are failed ... its going to pull them into the system. Some 

> > joints are designed to seal with pressure ... if you draw 

> "Backwards" 

> > ... you'll

> end

> > up

> > with joints suddenly leaking all over the place. I would 

> continue to 

> > pressurize the system doing exactly what your doing if I 

> had no money

> in

> > the

> > budget ...

> > 

> > BUT, if you have a couple hundred bucks ... say around 

> $300.00 ... you 

> > could get something I know works really well in refrigeration.

> > 

> > It's called a ultrasonic leak detector. You can continue to 

> keep the 

> > integrity of the system pressurized with this device. 

> Here's a link to

> one

> > for an example -

> > 

> >

> http://www.nationalonlinetools.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPR

OD&ProdID=

> 29

> > 00

> > 4

> > 

> > There's more expensive models with more bells and whistles, but

> basically

> > it

> > "listens" on an extremely sensitive level for leaks around 

> your joints

> and

> > flanges on a pressurized system. A Nitrogen pressurized 

> system works 

> > really works the best since Nitrogen is molecularly smaller 

> than air 

> > ...

> those

> > little molecules can creep by the smallest leaks and make a ton of

> noise.

> > This would be great to follow up on new installs with.

> > 

> > What you would do is pressurize the system with Nitrogen at your 

> > safest/highest pressure ... wait a couple hours ... then 

> start looking 

> > with one of these devices until you found all the leaks. If 

> you think 

> > you

> have

> > HUGE leaks ... or your running out of Nitrogen in your 

> bottle ... then

> use

> > air until all the big leaks are found. Once the "listener" has found

> no

> > leaks with Air ... switch to Nitrogen to see if you can 

> find any small 

> > ones.

> > 

> > This is my 2 cents worth ... you could just keep going 

> until you have

> DAWN

> > hands ...:-).

> > 

> > Bill Whitt

> > 

> > 

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: sbe-bounces at sbe.org [mailto:sbe-bounces at sbe.org] On Behalf Of

> Chris

> > Spacone

> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 7:17 AM

> > To: curt at spam-o-matic.net; 'sbe member discussion mail list'

> > Subject: Re: [SBE] Ultrasonic Leak Detection

> > 

> > Cowboy,

> > 

> > I used a rig similar to this when I worked as an engineering

> technician at

> > a

> > medical device startup. We would attach the leak detector to the UUT

> (unit

> > under test) and then pull a vacuum on it (pretty hard as I recall 10

> -12

> > torr). The system incorporated what the manufacturer called a 'cee

> tube'

> > which was a mass spectrometer assembly shaped like a 

> shallow 'C'. This 

> > tube was in the vacuum path inside the machine and was 

> tuned to react 

> > to helium.

> > Once calibrated (why using a calibrated leak source of course!) the 

> > operator would spray helium on the UUT (joints, flanges & 

> welds). If 

> > there was

> a

> > leak

> > the machine would make wailing noises proportional to the 

> size of the

> leak

> > and simultaneously give a meter reading that showed the size.

> > 

> > I wasn't aware that there was an opposite method that employed 

> > pressurization of the UUT. Do you have any further information?

> Anybody?

> > 

> > 73,

> > Chris

> > 

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: sbe-bounces at sbe.org [mailto:sbe-bounces at sbe.org] On Behalf Of

> Cowboy

> > Sent: Friday, May 16, 2008 7:08 AM

> > To: sbe member discussion mail list

> > Subject: Re: [SBE] Ultrasonic Leak Detection

> > 

> > On Friday 16 May 2008 09:48 am, Chris Spacone wrote:

> > 

> > >  I would like to avoid pouring lots of soapy water all over

> waveguide

> > >  flanges, couplings and the rest of the system to find a nagging

> leak or

> > >  leaks.

> > 

> >  That is the cheapest and most common way.

> >  Smoke works well in still air.

> > 

> > >  Here is the question(s): Anybody have any experience with

> ultrasonic

> > leak

> > >  detectors? If so are they a vast improvement over shotgunning the

> > problem?

> > >  Any recommendations for a source / manufacturer? Perils 

> / pitfalls?

> > 

> >  I can see a problem in any noisy environment. I'm sure all of us

> would be

> >  interested in the result if you go that way.

> > 

> >  Personally, a sniffer would be a better shot.

> >  This would require that you can introduce some inert gas into the

> system

> >  that won't be a later problem if not purged, but those gas 

> sniffers  

> > are incredibly sensitive, especially for any non-atmospheric gas.

> >  Get within two feet of a leak, you'll find it.

> >  Check with a local hospital and see if you can't borrow something.

> > 

> > --

> > Cowboy

> > 

> > http://cowboys.homeip.net

> > 

> > "The medium is the massage."

> > -- Crazy Nigel

> > 

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