[Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED display?

John Robertson jrr at flippers.com
Mon Dec 5 16:24:09 EST 2022


On 2022/12/05 12:54 p.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote:
> He sent me this picture.

That looks pretty good. Those modules are pretty reasonably priced too. 
Might be a good solution, plus one can buy a spare or two tubes for the 
future if they ever fail...

Does your friend say if he knows if this will fit in a regular 9010/9005 
box? Of course he doesn't have one of the units, does he, so not sure if 
he can answer that...

Thanks!

John :-#)#

>
> Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 17:48, Jose Luiz Martins 
> <joseluizmartins at gmail.com> escreveu:
>
>     He told-me, he is now working in a new version for regular LCD
>     modules.
>
>     I'll call him later to ask for the update.
>
>
>     JL
>
>     Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 17:34, John Robertson via Techtoolslist
>     <techtoolslist at flippers.com> escreveu:
>
>         On 2022/12/05 11:58 a.m., Jose Luiz Martins wrote:
>         > I know him, he is a very nice guy.
>         >
>         > I have one of this kits, it it's very well made. If you guys
>         have
>         > interesting, I can talk to him to manage a discount for this
>         group.
>         >
>         >
>         > JL
>
>         Thanks for the info.
>
>         Isn't the problem that our friend in Brazil used the Itron fg326
>         display? Those are kinda hard to come by. So failing turning up a
>         display, one is looking at a replacement - probably LED.
>
>         John :-#)#
>
>         >
>         > Em seg., 5 de dez. de 2022 16:53, Tony Jones
>         <tony at tonyjones.com> escreveu:
>         >
>         >> I assume you guys saw this:
>         >>
>         >>
>         https://forums.arcade-museum.com/threads/the-fluke-9010a-club.97717/post-4432860
>         >>
>         >> On Mon, Dec 5, 2022 at 11:08 AM Brad Gass via Techtoolslist <
>         >> techtoolslist at flippers.com> wrote:
>         >>
>         >>> I guess I hadn't looked at dot matrix displays because of
>         the cost, but
>         >>> they certainly seem feasible from a technical standpoint. 
>         From UT
>         >> Source,
>         >>> the 3416 size red displays are still a lot more than an
>         LCD, but at
>         >> ~$21.14
>         >>> each, are certainly more reasonable than from Newark.
>         >>>
>         >>> Although I wouldn't fuss over a red versus green display
>         if red were
>         >> lower
>         >>> cost, I did put in an inquiry on the DLG3416 (green) Osram
>         version of
>         >> that
>         >>> display, which would more closely match the Fluke's look. 
>         Awaiting a
>         >> quote.
>         >>> So, the question is really - retrofit the existing board
>         with a mezzanine
>         >>> type board (if feasible), or a full-on redesign of the
>         board?  Anyone
>         >> know
>         >>> if there is enough 5V rail current headroom to support up
>         to another 1A
>         >> of
>         >>> draw (worst case)?  I suspect the safest bet would be to
>         create a new 5V
>         >>> supply for the character modules from the +55V rail used
>         to provide power
>         >>> to the VFD.
>         >>>
>         >>> Thanks,
>         >>>
>         >>> --Brad
>         >>>
>         >>> ----- Original Message -----
>         >>> From: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist at flippers.com>
>         >>> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist at flippers.com>
>         >>> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr at flippers.com>
>         >>> Sent: Sunday, December 4, 2022 12:51:39 AM
>         >>> Subject: Re: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement
>         LED display?
>         >>>
>         >>> On 2022/12/01 8:37 p.m., Brad Gass wrote:
>         >>>> There doesn't appear to be small-pitch alphanumeric LED
>         displays
>         >>>> available (at least that I could find) that would work
>         here without
>         >>>> being much too large for the space. There are a couple
>         Noritake Itron
>         >>>> graphic VFD's that might work, but those are going to be
>         expensive,
>         >>>> and don't appear readily available either.
>         >>>>
>         >>>> I think what might be a workable approach would be to use
>         a 40x1
>         >>>> character LCD module with a reasonably bright backlight.
>         There seem to
>         >>>> be a couple models pretty readily available on the
>         surplus market that
>         >>>> may work out. It's not perfect, and the surplus displays
>         may or may
>         >>>> not support "inverted" displays (light text on black
>         background), but
>         >>>> anything is a lot better than nothing if you have a bum
>         display! But
>         >>>> no matter what the approach, additional design effort
>         would be needed
>         >>>> to capture the segment drive data for each character,
>         decode it into
>         >>>> character data for the LCD, then output it to the LCD module.
>         >>>>
>         >>>> In looking at pictures of the display PCB, this may be
>         retrofit-able
>         >>>> on the existing board with a bit of clever craftsmanship.
>         >From the
>         >>>> schematic, abandon U3 through U10 in place, pick off
>         character clock
>         >>>> (U6 pin 9) and data (U6 pin 7) from the head of the
>         character drive
>         >>>> shift register chain, and get segment clock (U13 pin or
>         U14 pin 3) and
>         >>>> data (U13 pin 2 *and* U14 pin 2) from the segment drive shift
>         >>>> registers. Decode the captured data into ASCII (or
>         custom) characters,
>         >>>> then send them out to the LCD, updating only the LCD
>         character
>         >>>> positions that change between VFD "refresh cycles" to
>         keep the LCD
>         >>>> character flicker to a minimum.
>         >>>> Does anyone know the full "character map" of the 9010? As
>         near as I
>         >>>> can recall, it's all standard ASCII characters but I
>         honestly don't
>         >>>> remember if there was any oddball symbols that might need
>         to be mapped
>         >>>> to custom characters on the LCD. I've been busy with
>         other life issues
>         >>>> and away from the bench for much too long now, but
>         wouldn't mind
>         >>>> working at this a bit if there were others interested in
>         helping out.
>         >>>>
>         >>>> --Brad
>         >>> I did find what appears to be a suitable LED display
>         module, that will
>         >>> fit in the space, but we need 8 of them and they cost
>         around $36US each:
>         >>>
>         >>>
>         >>>
>         >>
>         https://www.newark.com/broadcom/hdlo-3416/led-alphanumeric-display-dot-matrix/dp/36AJ9396
>         >>> 8 of them is just over 6.5 inches, and the original space
>         is around 6.75
>         >>> inches. Height is 0.274" or close enough to the original 0.3"
>         >>> fluorescent digit.
>         >>>
>         >>> They are ASCII coded, and even have 8 user defined
>         characters available.
>         >>>
>         >>> Not so cheap, but with a bit of logic glue possibly a
>         worthwhile fix
>         >>> considering the 9010 is worthless without a display...
>         >>>
>         >>> John :-#)#
>         >>>
>         >>>> ----- Original Message -----
>         >>>> From: "Technical Tools Mail List"
>         <techtoolslist at flippers.com>
>         >>>> To: "Technical Tools Mail List" <techtoolslist at flippers.com>
>         >>>> Cc: "John Robertson" <jrr at flippers.com>
>         >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2022 7:47:51 PM
>         >>>> Subject: [Techtoolslist] Designing a 9010 replacement LED
>         display?
>         >>>>
>         >>>> I was looking at my 9005 and grumbling because the tube
>         is missing,
>         >> then
>         >>>> I pulled out the 9010a service manual and you know, it
>         looks like it
>         >>>> would be a pretty easy fix to replace the tube with 32 digit
>         >>>> alpha-numeric LEDs of the correct size on a small PCB and
>         all that
>         >> would
>         >>>> be needed is to replace the UDN6118 fluorescent drivers
>         with suitable
>         >>>> LED drivers and find a place to grab 5V and ground and
>         then mount the
>         >>>> new display to the board...
>         >>>>
>         >>>> Maybe it would work?
>         >>>>
>         >>>> Anyone interested in poking at the KiCAD layout? I have
>         no free time,
>         >>>> but I know there are folks out there looking for a
>         solution to bad or
>         >>>> weak tubes...
>         >>>>
>         >>>> Here is the page:
>         >>>>
>         >>
>         ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf
>         >>>> <
>         >>
>         ftp://ftp.flippers.com/TTL/Test_Equipment/Fluke/9010%20Series/9010_Fixture%20PDFs/9010A_Display_Schematic.pdf
>         >>>>
>         >>>> John :-#)#
>         >>>>
>
>         -- 
>                           John's Jukes Ltd.
>         7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
>         Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
>         flippers.com <http://flippers.com>
>           "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"
>
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-- 
                  John's Jukes Ltd.
7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
Call (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
                  flippers.com
  "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out"



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