[game_edu] Game studies and the economy

[Scott Maddock]

I think you may be on to something with this law industry comparison, though
I would think it's specifically being focused at the senior level developers
who, as Ian bluntly put it, just aren't superstars.  If you have someone who
has "paid his/her dues" and is making notably more than an entry level dev
would, without producing significantly better work, then I can certainly see
a studio making that trade.  But in general (and maybe I just haven't been
working long enough to find out what the "big bucks" is in this
industry...though I do read the results of the yearly salary survey!), a
senior level dev doesn't make SO much more than an entry level that it'd be
worth trading down in -experience-.  Until you've actually -worked- in the
industry, even if it's just an internship or a co-op, you really haven't
gotten your feet wet.

Somehow, I don't think that studios are really worried about the stigma of
constantly firing senior employees to hire cheap new ones (and then repeat
the process) to keep costs down (which is sad; they should be, because it's
wrong, but I digress...).

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:39 AM, Dan Rosenthal <swatjester at gmail.com> wrote:


> Has anyone considered whether the game industry is experiencing a

> phenomenon similar to the law industry, where a combination of a tightening

> economy and a glut of talented new graduates willing to work for extremely

> low pay to compete for the limited number of jobs, has lead to

> belt-tightening measures among senior staff?  It's been my experience that

> as far as major law firms go, many have been firing large numbers of

> highly-paid senior associates, to replace them with cheaper but highly

> talented junior associates. Why pay $300K a year when you can train a new

> guy into the job at $160K?

>

> The reason I mention the comparison, which I'm sure has its flaws, is that

> I was struck by the sheer number of students looking for work at GDC. With

> the rising number of game design programs in universities worldwide, I

> wonder if we're experiencing the same kind of glut of graduates that the law

> firms are?

>

> On the one hand, that means that some of the most talented students have a

> chance to truly excel and stand out heads and shoulders above the rest. On

> the other hand, it means that talented students may get lost in the shuffle

> as well.

>

> As far as law schools go, there have been an increasing chorus of voices

> calling for schools to self-police and restrict the number of students that

> they accept, but I'm sure we can all guess how much effect that has had

> (protip: rhymes with zero). I haven't seen the same thing from the games

> industry, nor am I suggesting that it should be implemented: I'd love to see

> the day where we have 300+ game design programs graduating 500+ students

> each per year. I'm just curious if anyone on this list has considered the

> subject.

>

> -Dan

>

>

> On Apr 1, 2009, at 10:13 PM, Jose P. Zagal wrote:

>

> I also have the impression that any bad news in the games industry is

>> automatically attributed to the economy. Truth is, game companies have

>> always trimmed people, closed studies, and so on. I'm not sure that things

>> are particularly worse than before. I'm not saying that they're rosy either,

>> just that it easy to get caught up in the negative hype.

>>

>> For example, I would have said that GDC seemed pretty empty...but the

>> attendance numbers would clearly show me wrong. :-)

>>

>>

>> Jose

>>

>>

>> Ian Schreiber wrote:

>>

>>> This is a great question, and in fact one of the big things I was hoping

>>> to get out of GDC this year was an answer to the question: why all the

>>> layoffs when games (judging by revenue) are still a growth industry?

>>> This is just my opinion (based on talking to a lot of people and trying

>>> to "read between the lines" on the expo floor), but I think it comes down to

>>> two things:

>>> 1) A lot of game developers are, frankly, not superstars. Game companies

>>> with a lot of mediocre employees are trying to cut the deadwood.

>>> 2) Since everyone is doing this at the same time, it causes a cascade

>>> effect that is really benefitting development shops. Want to lay people off,

>>> but afraid of cutting the staff too much? No problem, there's lots of people

>>> looking for work, so you can cut deep and then staff up fast if you need to

>>> later on. Want to hire people? That's also no problem, lots of talent in the

>>> job market right now.

>>> Now, I did see some companies hiring very aggressively. I also saw a

>>> number of geographic regions heavily incentivizing developers to move to

>>> their region (seriously, probably a third of the booths in North Hall were a

>>> location).

>>> Corollaries:

>>> * Students are going to have a rough time of it for now. The bar has

>>> officially been raised. I think the industry will always have a place for

>>> people who are genuinely skilled and talented, but the marginal students

>>> should be thinking about another line of work that's less demanding.

>>> * The regions that are trying to attract developers (such as those with

>>> booths) are worth looking at for students who are willing to move out of the

>>> country AND start their own independent studio while their burn rate is low.

>>> I don't normally advise this to my students (starting a business when you

>>> have no experience is a great way to lose everything you have) but in the

>>> rare case when a student is ready to take this step, it seems to be a great

>>> time for it.

>>> * If your institution is looking to hire industry-experienced people for

>>> teaching positions, this is a really great time to staff up your department.

>>> A lot of people are getting sick and tired of the layoffs and would like

>>> something that at least has the appearance of stability :)

>>> * With so many schools churning out game-related degrees each year and

>>> the industry growth not keeping pace, I can't see this changing in the near

>>> future. But it does mean that as schools, the bar has been raised on us as

>>> well; the schools with mediocre programs that produce mediocre graduates

>>> will find their students unable to find work.

>>> - Ian

>>> --- On *Wed, 4/1/09, Brena Smith /<brena.smith at gmail.com>/* wrote:

>>>   From: Brena Smith <brena.smith at gmail.com>

>>>   Subject: [game_edu] Game studies and the economy

>>>   To: "IGDA Game Education Listserv" <game_edu at igda.org>

>>>   Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2009, 12:54 PM

>>>   Hi all,

>>>   I have two questions: First, I know that all educational

>>>   institutions are not untouched by the economy these days - but have

>>>   any of you seen any specific impact on game studies departments?

>>> Second, any thoughts on how the economy has impacted the electronic

>>>   game industry in general?  Are game companies seeing a lot of

>>>   layoffs?  Are students still able to find jobs?

>>>   Many thanks!

>>>   Brena

>>>   -----Inline Attachment Follows-----

>>>   _______________________________________________

>>>   game_edu mailing list

>>>   game_edu at igda.org

>>>   <http://us.mc397.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=game_edu@igda.org>

>>>   http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu

>>>

>>

>> _______________________________________________

>> game_edu mailing list

>> game_edu at igda.org

>> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu

>>

>

> _______________________________________________

> game_edu mailing list

> game_edu at igda.org

> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu

>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://seven.pairlist.net/pipermail/game_edu/attachments/20090402/f52f0e4e/attachment-0001.html>