[games_access] Accessibility and laws ?

Thu Aug 7 17:22:57 EDT 2008

Yeah, I definitely have to agree with Mark and 
Thomas. As far as I know most every country 
requires a reasonable accommodation and, yes, 
personal assistants are often hired by 
universities to help students with disabilities. 
With any kind of computer-based instruction it 
will be a blessing for some and a curse for 
others. So everything is "case by case" and 
schools and universities do not have a one size 
fits all set of rules.

So basically, as Mark said, it would be really 
difficult for a case to go to court. The only 
thing I can think of that would make a case is if 
a university flat out says that they are not 
willing to provide any accommodation and, thus a 
student might not be able to take courses they 
need to take for their major. But that is outside 
the game world and points to a much bigger 
problem that the school might be dealing with: 
ignorance.

Michelle

>I think the same goes with similar laws in Sweden for instance too
>
>In education the traditional way of coping with 
>accessibility, if it can't be done through 
>modification of the environment, is to hire 
>personal assistants, e.g sign language during a 
>lecture. The problem then when it comes to games 
>in education, is to find personal assistants who 
>are also skillful gamers :)
>
>/Thomas
>
>On 7 aug 2008, at 20.55, Mark Barlet wrote:
>
>>Well to chime in on this, because I am in the 
>>software biz for the federal government or 10 
>>years here in the Washington DC area, and at 
>>one time in my life an expert on 508.
>>
>>Eelke, you are half right here. The only folks 
>>that are required to comply with 508 are 
>>federal government agencies, and only to the 
>>extent of where their data is exposed to the 
>>public or employees. Here is what it says...
>>
>>"Section 508 requires that when Federal 
>>agencies develop, procure, maintain, or use 
>>electronic and information technology, Federal 
>>employees with disabilities have access to and 
>>use of information and data that is comparable 
>>to the access and use by Federal employees who 
>>are not individuals with disabilities, unless 
>>an undue burden would be imposed on the agency."
>>
>>So, an example here would be the website from 
>>the IRS, or forms they allow to be filled out 
>>on the web. Those all have to comply with the 
>>law. 
>>
>>Now that said, many states have adopted state 
>>level laws that bring 508 into state level 
>>governments, and that is where university come 
>>into play. State run university are compelled 
>>to comply with 508 once the state adopts the 
>>law on a state level.
>>
>>I say all of that to say this, 508 has HUGE 
>>LOOPHOLES. You do not need to be 508 compliant 
>>if your application, by its nature, cannot be 
>>508 compliant, so let's say a video game. 
>>Further, you can also not be 508 compliant if 
>>no 508 alternative is available.
>>
>>Part (e) of Section 1194.3 says "(e) This part 
>>shall not be construed to require a fundamental 
>>alteration in the nature of a product or its 
>>components. "
>>
>>So to go back to the original question, in the 
>>US I dare say NO GAME is required to be 
>>accessible, because one can argue, and be right 
>>for the most part that 508 "require a 
>>fundamental alteration in the nature of a 
>>product or its components. " and also "unless 
>>an undue burden would be imposed on the 
>>agency". As long as you can argue that there is 
>>no way to make said product accessible to 
>>persons with disabilities, and still be what it 
>>was meant to be, say a game, then it can be 
>>excluded from the law... 
>>
>>Last point, and this is why I think 508 and 
>>games is never going to happen (and I think 
>>never should happen) is because 508 is an all 
>>or nothing law, you are 508 compliant, or you 
>>are not. So if your product can be used by 
>>everyone in the world with physical 
>>disabilities, and the blind cannot use it, you 
>>are not 508Š So I would say, and I am no 
>>lawyer, but I think you would be hard pressed 
>>to sue a school who used a non 508, off the 
>>shelf, game as a teaching aid in a classroom, 
>>or be sued for using one.
>>
>>NOW, if you are making a game that is designed 
>>for school and one of the goals of the game is 
>>to help, or train folks with disabilities, I 
>>would think that is a marketing thing...
>>
>>You are welcome to contact me directly if you 
>>want to yell at me, debate me on the law as it 
>>is written or just to say hello.
>>
>>Mark Barlet
>>Editor-in-Chief
>>AbleGamers.com
>>
>>
>>PS sorry for my spelling, I am at work, and not 
>>a lot of time to give at the moment.
>>
>>On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Eelke 
>>Folmer <<mailto:eelke.folmer at gmail.com>eelke.folmer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Hi Sandra,
>>
>>Here in the US Section 508 of the rehabilitation act states that all
>>federal agencies (including universities relying upon federal funding)
>>make their information accessible.
>>
>>
>>So if someone wants to use a game in their classroom in theory it has
>>to comply with this act but I doubt whether that happens a lot. I'm
>>not sure about the legal issues can you sue a university for not
>>providing you with an accessible alternative?
>>
>>Cheers Eelke
>>
>>
>>
>>On 05/08/2008, Sandra Uhling 
>><<mailto:sandra_uhling at web.de>sandra_uhling at web.de> 
>>wrote:
>>>  Hello,
>>>
>>>  I would like to know,
>>>  in which countries games used in schools require to be accessible.
>>>  And what laws are important.
>>>
>>>  With this information it will be much easier to discuss about it.
>>>  And to show that this is an important thing for companies that
>>>  are developping games for use in schools.
>>>
>>>  Regards,
>>>
>>>  Sandra Uhling
>>>  _____________________________________________________________________
>>>  Der <http://WEB.DE>WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft 
>>>bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen!
>>> <http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066>http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071&distributionid=000000000066
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  games_access mailing list
>>> <mailto:games_access at igda.org>games_access at igda.org
>>> <http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>>
>>
>>--
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Eelke Folmer                           Assistant Professor
>>Department of CS&E/171
>>University of Nevada              Reno, Nevada 89557
>>Game interaction design        <http://www.eelke.com>www.eelke.com
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>games_access mailing list
>><mailto:games_access at igda.org>games_access at igda.org
>><http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>games_access mailing list
>><mailto:games_access at igda.org>games_access at igda.org
>><http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>games_access mailing list
>games_access at igda.org
>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/games_access
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://pairlist7.pair.net/pipermail/games_access/attachments/20080807/698ad7de/attachment.htm>