[SBE] Tarring Copper

[Cris Alexander]

Tarring the copper strap didn't help a bit in Birmingham. They took it
anyway, goo and all.

______________________________
Cris Alexander, CPBE, AMD, DRB
Crawford Broadcasting Company
Denver, Colorado
(303) 433-0104
(303) 433-0905 Fax
Member AFCCE
 

-----Original Message-----
From: sbe-bounces at sbe.org [mailto:sbe-bounces at sbe.org] On Behalf Of Tim
Kelly
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 7:34 AM
To: sbe at sbe.org
Subject: Re: [SBE] SBE Digest, Vol 30, Issue 6

Put roofing tar on the exposed copper. If it is not shiny bright it is not
worth the crooks time. They have to clean it off and they do not receive the
same amount of money if it is on there.


-----Original Message-----
From: sbe-bounces at sbe.org [mailto:sbe-bounces at sbe.org] On Behalf Of
sbe-request at sbe.org
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 12:07 AM
To: sbe at sbe.org
Subject: SBE Digest, Vol 30, Issue 6

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SBE Roundtable

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: conversation topic: how often do you check tower ground
      (Mike Langner)
   2. Friendly Neighbors (chscherer at everestkc.net)
   3. Can you think of a broadcast example? Another conversation
      topic. (A9xw at cs.com)
   4. ACR Cassette? (Funk, Andrew R)
   5. Re: conversation topic: how often do you check tower ground
      (Ron Baker)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 08:03:05 -0700
From: "Mike Langner" <mlangner at swcp.com>
Subject: Re: [SBE] conversation topic: how often do you check tower
	ground
To: "sbe member discussion mail list" <sbe at sbe.org>
Message-ID: <EJEGJKKADOAJPODEOBDHAEFNCHAA.mlangner at swcp.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Years ago at two of the AM stations I used to take care of we had tenants
either in an apartment attached to the transmitter building or in an
apartment immediately adjacent to the transmitter building. In one site
employees got free or close to free rent for watching out for our copper, in
the other we simply rented the modest single family dwelling for a low rate
with the understanding that the tenant had "lookout" duties. In both cases
we had no problems during the times there was a frequent presence on the
property.  Of course, the price of copper was lower in those days.

How crazy is life?  In the case of the single family detached dwelling, upon
a vacancy, the station owner's son announced that he was going to live in
the little house.  His father announced that, "No, he wasn't!" and sent a
crane with a wrecking ball to cave in the roof.  The rest of the house was
removed a month or so later. Copper then began to be removed, too!

That owner was a colorful part of New Mexico broadcasting history.  Some day
someone will write a book.  It'll contain other episodes, like the time he
drove to California, flew back, couldn't find his car in the parking lot,
and reported it stolen.

Or the time he and his wife flew back from New York via O'Hare with their
kids.  Except that from O'Hare they had to take separate flights due to
airline congestion and sold-out planes.  When he and his wife met at the
baggage claim here, she asked where the kids were.  He'd forgotten about
them, and left them in the Chicago airport.

And that's just the beginning!  (But it's more than enough for now!)

So back to copper -- in my opinion, a human presence is the only reasonable
thing that'll work.  You know the saying, if you build a 20 foot fence,
they'll get a 21 foot ladder. . .

Good luck to all!

Mike Langner
Albuquerque, NM
_________________________


-----Original Message-----
From: sbe-bounces at sbe.org [mailto:sbe-bounces at sbe.org]On Behalf Of
dynotherm at earthlink.net
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 1:14 AM
To: sbe member discussion mail list
Subject: Re: [SBE] conversation topic: how often do you check tower ground


In that case, perhaps you should consider inspection at 30 minute intervals
like the old days of Tx logging.
No, on second thought, even that may not be enough. ;-)

--------------------------
Phil Alexander, CSRE , AMD
Broadcast Engineering Services and Technology (a Div. of Advanced Parts
Corporation)
Ph. (317) 335-2065   FAX (317) 335-9037


-----Original Message-----

>From: Mike Langner <mlangner at swcp.com>

>Sent: Feb 15, 2008 10:11 PM

>To: sbe member discussion mail list <sbe at sbe.org>

>Subject: Re: [SBE] conversation topic: how often do you check tower 

>ground

>

>Please understand that in my case frequently checking the ground system 

>is not so much based on chemistry as much as it's based on copper theft!!

>

>Mike Langner

>Albuquerque, NM

>___________________

>

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: sbe-bounces at sbe.org [mailto:sbe-bounces at sbe.org]On Behalf Of 

>Barry Thomas, CPBE CBNT

>Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 8:00 PM

>To: dynotherm at earthlink.net; Member Discussion List

>Subject: Re: [SBE] conversation topic: how often do you check tower 

>ground

>

>

>Items like this is why the SBE list is such a great resource. Thanks 

>for a comprehensive treatment, Phil.

>

>

>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: dynotherm at earthlink.net

>

>Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:33:01 -0500 (GMT-05:00) To:barryt at sbe.org, 

>sbe member discussion mail list <sbe at sbe.org>

>Subject: Re: [SBE] conversation topic: how often do you check tower 

>ground

>

>

>While the systems are separate, they have the effect of the soil on 

>copper in common, thus, to an extent, the deterioration of all buried 

>copper will be somewhat similar.

>

>If the lightning dissipation/mitigation system is combined with the RF 

>ground as may frequently be the case at the tower base(s), the 

>condition of the gaps and the lower gap connection to the common ring 

>tie is generally indicative of damage, however, careful examination of 

>the ATU components is also critical in this event. Not only can a 

>strike blow capacitors, it can reform coils, sometimes in a spectacular 

>way.

>

>The corrosion life of buried copper varies widely as it is essentially 

>a function of soil chemistry. I have seen radial systems 60 years old 

>where the finish of the wire had only evolved from bright copper to 

>heavy brown (CuO) patina. OTOH I have a very few systems turning 

>brittle blue in less than ten years.

>

>The difference can usually be found by looking at soil pH, chloride, 

>nitrate and ammonium content. When a new system is put into cropland 

>care should be taken to bring the pH into the mildly alkaline range. If 

>the soil has been heavily fertilized, a small sample plot of 1/4 to 1/2 

>acre should be ripped, deeply plowed, pH adjusted (generally by liming) 

>and analyzed again a little below the burial depth.

>

>If ammonium or chloride radicals remain present in excessive amounts, 

>it should be understood that the radial system will be a high 

>maintenance item requiring annual inspection. At this point it may be 

>wise to consider an alternative site or elevated counterpoise.

>

>If the test plot treatment shows an acceptable result the entire area 

>should be conditioned in the same way before burying copper (or other 

>metals).

>

>However, most sites in inland areas such as unfertilized pasture or 

>grazing land or adequately conditioned cropland may not require 

>replacement literally for generations.

>

>One clue pointing to possible ground system deterioration is an 

>appearance of base current drift with changing soil moisture 

>conditions. Another is an apparent long term shift in base impedance. 

>In both cases, the ground system is suspect, however the tower(s) may 

>be the cause if not well bonded at section joints (usually by tack 

>welding). If either of these conditions appears, the tower(s) should be 

>checked and bonded if this has not been previously done.

>

>If the condition persists, radials can be checked using a "sniffer" 

>coil as the external antenna of a FIM. This is simply a loop coil of 

>several turns 4 to 6 inches in diameter mounted on the end of a 

>broomstick connected with about 6 feet of RG-58 and a BNC connector to 

>the FIM's external input.

>Moving the "sniffer" over the ground about 45 degrees out from the 

>tower and comparing results over each radial will clearly show low 

>induced current in bad radials. One caution is that this process can 

>show a false good reading when a radial is broken near the tower. If 

>broken radials are found, it is wise to check radials by other means 

>such as end to end resistance at adjacent outer ends, or with a 

>clamp-on RFA such as was described earlier in this thread.

>

>Unless there is traffic over the radial system on unimproved roads or 

>paths, or cattle graze the site, it is unnecessary to check the radials 

>of a system in good soil more often than every five or ten years unless 

>abnormal operation is suspected.

>

>However, if the soil conditions are poor, annual inspections should be 

>scheduled. The inspection should be electrical, as above, for broken 

>radials, and mechanical for visible signs of corrosion by digging up 

>the ends of a few radials selected at random and visually observing 

>their condition. Visually, good wire will be flexible, not brittle, and 

>brown, not blue-green. Cleaning with sandpaper or steel wool should 

>reveal uniform, unpitted, bright copper. Pitting, bluish color or 

>brittle conditions are all indicators of deterioration or failure, 

>however the system will have a degree of function as long as a low 

>resistance metallic path remains.

>

>Where cattle graze over a ground system, or where farming or other 

>vehicles travel over the system on unimproved paths, annual inspection 

>for broken radials in the affected areas is essential and consideration 

>to deeper than normal burial should be considered.

>

>Ground systems and their performance in transmission systems are one of 

>the topics we cover in the Radio Guide AM Transmission Seminars.

>

>--------------------------

>Phil Alexander, CSRE , AMD

>Broadcast Engineering Services and Technology (a Div. of Advanced Parts 

>Corporation)

>Ph. (317) 335-2065   FAX (317) 335-9037

>

>

>

>-----Original Message-----

>>From: Barry Thomas, CPBE CBNT <barryt at sbe.org>

>>Sent: Feb 14, 2008 2:22 PM

>>To: A9xw at cs.com, Barry Thomas <barryt at sbe.org>, Member Discussion List

><SBE at sbe.org>

>>Subject: Re: [SBE] conversation topic: how often do you check tower 

>>ground

>>

>>The two systems would have different characteristics and purposes and 

>>therefore different inspection schedules and procedures.

>>

>>For electrical and lightning grounds, they should be inspected after 

>>every known electrical event. I used to physically check during weekly 

>>transmitter inspections. I've usually not done a more indepth analysis 

>>unless there is an increase in storm or electrical damage.

>>

>>For antenna radials. The system performance usually degrades which 

>>will initiate inspection but I typically do a full inspection every

>>2-3 years if the antenna system is stable.

>>

>>Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

>>

>>-----Original Message-----

>>From: A9xw at cs.com

>>

>>Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:12:38

>>To:barryt at sbe.org

>>Subject: Re: [SBE] conversation topic: how often do you check tower 

>>ground

>>

>>

>>We're discussing ground system life, how often to check, maintenance 

>>intervals, etc. Both radial and rods.

>>

>> Henry

>

>_______________________________________________

>SBE mailing list

>To unsubscribe, go to http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/options/sbe

>_______________________________________________

>SBE at sbe.org

>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/sbe

>

>

>

>_______________________________________________

>SBE mailing list

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 09:23:11 -0600
From: chscherer at everestkc.net
Subject: [SBE] Friendly Neighbors
To: sbe member discussion mail list <sbe at sbe.org>
Message-ID: <f5b1b9337f2b.47b6ab7f at everestkc.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I agree with Mike that a human presence is hard to beat if it's available.
At my transmitter sites that were near or in a residential area, I would
always try to meet the neighbors. Most of the time they were happy to report
any strange activity.

At one site, the local police liked to use the long driveway as secluded
spot to complete their reports before their shifts ended. I would always
talk to them when they were there.

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Langner <mlangner at swcp.com>

> Years ago at two of the AM stations I used to take care of we had 

> tenantseither in an apartment attached to the transmitter building or 

> in an apartment immediately adjacent to the transmitter building.

...


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 13:11:35 EST
From: A9xw at cs.com
Subject: [SBE] Can you think of a broadcast example? Another
	conversation	topic.
To: sbe at sbe.org
Message-ID: <cdd.23718102.34e88157 at cs.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

I train dogs at our kennel when not training employees they need to do more
than push buttons.  

Animal control. Teaching sit-stay.
1.  Dog sits. you toss the toy, (fetch) let the dog run after it and bring
it back.
2.  Dog sits. You toss the toy, but make the dog wait a while then "fetch".
3.  Dog sits. You heel the dog to the toy and let them take it. 
4.  Dog sits. You tell it stay, walk over, get the toy and bring it back. 

Which style manager are you and why?

Henry Ruhwiedel
WYIN, AA9XW, K9ATN   </HTML>


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 18:46:49 +0000
From: "Funk, Andrew R" <Andrew.R.Funk at abc.com>
Subject: [SBE] ACR Cassette?
To: "sbe member discussion mail list" <sbe at sbe.org>
Message-ID: <a12201c870cc$431ec40d$25b00699 at wdw.disney.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="utf-8"

Back in the day I operated both TCRs and ACRs.  I have an old TCR cart in my
collection, but I don't have an ACR cassette.   By any chance does someone
on the list have an extra ACR cassette they would be willing to part with?

Thanks,

/Andy

--
Andy Funk
[sent from my mobile phone]


-----Original Message-----
From: "A9xw at cs.com" <A9xw at cs.com>
To: "sbe at sbe.org" <sbe at sbe.org>
Sent: 2/16/2008 12:11 PM
Subject: [SBE] Can you think of a broadcast example? Another
conversationtopic.

I train dogs at our kennel when not training employees they need to do more
than push buttons.  

Animal control. Teaching sit-stay.
1.  Dog sits. you toss the toy, (fetch) let the dog run after it and bring
it back.
2.  Dog sits. You toss the toy, but make the dog wait a while then "fetch".
3.  Dog sits. You heel the dog to the toy and let them take it. 
4.  Dog sits. You tell it stay, walk over, get the toy and bring it back. 

Which style manager are you and why?

Henry Ruhwiedel
WYIN, AA9XW, K9ATN   </HTML>
_______________________________________________
SBE mailing list
To unsubscribe, go to http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/options/sbe
_______________________________________________
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http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/sbe


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2008 21:06:45 -0800
From: "Ron Baker" <ronbaker.ron at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [SBE] conversation topic: how often do you check tower
	ground
To: barryt at sbe.org, "sbe member discussion mail list" <sbe at sbe.org>
Message-ID:
	<aae0b99c0802162106q399728adje56d82ec8eb3dcd8 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

When is the Radio Guide AM Transmission Seminar scheduled for the west
coast?

On 2/15/08, Barry Thomas, CPBE CBNT <barryt at sbe.org> wrote:

>

> Items like this is why the SBE list is such a great resource. Thanks 

> for a comprehensive treatment, Phil.

>

>

> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: dynotherm at earthlink.net

>

> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 21:33:01 -0500 (GMT-05:00) To:barryt at sbe.org, 

> sbe member discussion mail list <sbe at sbe.org>

> Subject: Re: [SBE] conversation topic: how often do you check tower 

> ground

>

>

> While the systems are separate, they have the effect of the soil on 

> copper in common, thus, to an extent, the deterioration of all buried 

> copper will be somewhat similar.

>

> If the lightning dissipation/mitigation system is combined with the RF 

> ground as may frequently be the case at the tower base(s), the 

> condition of the gaps and the lower gap connection to the common ring 

> tie is generally indicative of damage, however, careful examination of 

> the ATU components is also critical in this event. Not only can a 

> strike blow capacitors, it can reform coils, sometimes in a 

> spectacular way.

>

> The corrosion life of buried copper varies widely as it is essentially 

> a function of soil chemistry. I have seen radial systems 60 years old 

> where the finish of the wire had only evolved from bright copper to 

> heavy brown (CuO) patina. OTOH I have a very few systems turning 

> brittle blue in less than ten years.

>

> The difference can usually be found by looking at soil pH, chloride, 

> nitrate and ammonium content. When a new system is put into cropland 

> care should be taken to bring the pH into the mildly alkaline range. 

> If the soil has been heavily fertilized, a small sample plot of 1/4 to 

> 1/2 acre should be ripped, deeply plowed, pH adjusted (generally by 

> liming) and analyzed again a little below the burial depth.

>

> If ammonium or chloride radicals remain present in excessive amounts, 

> it should be understood that the radial system will be a high 

> maintenance item requiring annual inspection. At this point it may be 

> wise to consider an alternative site or elevated counterpoise.

>

> If the test plot treatment shows an acceptable result the entire area 

> should be conditioned in the same way before burying copper (or other 

> metals).

>

> However, most sites in inland areas such as unfertilized pasture or 

> grazing land or adequately conditioned cropland may not require 

> replacement literally for generations.

>

> One clue pointing to possible ground system deterioration is an 

> appearance of base current drift with changing soil moisture 

> conditions. Another is an apparent long term shift in base impedance. 

> In both cases, the ground system is suspect, however the tower(s) may 

> be the cause if not well bonded at section joints (usually by tack 

> welding). If either of these conditions appears, the tower(s) should 

> be checked and bonded if this has not been previously done.

>

> If the condition persists, radials can be checked using a "sniffer" 

> coil as the external antenna of a FIM. This is simply a loop coil of 

> several turns 4 to 6 inches in diameter mounted on the end of a 

> broomstick connected with about 6 feet of RG-58 and a BNC connector to 

> the FIM's external input.

> Moving the "sniffer" over the ground about 45 degrees out from the 

> tower and comparing results over each radial will clearly show low 

> induced current in bad radials. One caution is that this process can 

> show a false good reading when a radial is broken near the tower. If 

> broken radials are found, it is wise to check radials by other means 

> such as end to end resistance at adjacent outer ends, or with a 

> clamp-on RFA such as was described earlier in this thread.

>

> Unless there is traffic over the radial system on unimproved roads or 

> paths, or cattle graze the site, it is unnecessary to check the 

> radials of a system in good soil more often than every five or ten 

> years unless abnormal operation is suspected.

>

> However, if the soil conditions are poor, annual inspections should be 

> scheduled. The inspection should be electrical, as above, for broken 

> radials, and mechanical for visible signs of corrosion by digging up 

> the ends of a few radials selected at random and visually observing 

> their condition. Visually, good wire will be flexible, not brittle, 

> and brown, not blue-green. Cleaning with sandpaper or steel wool 

> should reveal uniform, unpitted, bright copper. Pitting, bluish color 

> or brittle conditions are all indicators of deterioration or failure, 

> however the system will have a degree of function as long as a low 

> resistance metallic path remains.

>

> Where cattle graze over a ground system, or where farming or other 

> vehicles travel over the system on unimproved paths, annual inspection 

> for broken radials in the affected areas is essential and 

> consideration to deeper than normal burial should be considered.

>

> Ground systems and their performance in transmission systems are one 

> of the topics we cover in the Radio Guide AM Transmission Seminars.

>

> --------------------------

> Phil Alexander, CSRE , AMD

> Broadcast Engineering Services and Technology (a Div. of Advanced 

> Parts Corporation)

> Ph. (317) 335-2065   FAX (317) 335-9037

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> >From: Barry Thomas, CPBE CBNT <barryt at sbe.org>

> >Sent: Feb 14, 2008 2:22 PM

> >To: A9xw at cs.com, Barry Thomas <barryt at sbe.org>, Member Discussion 

> >List <

> SBE at sbe.org>

> >Subject: Re: [SBE] conversation topic: how often do you check tower 

> >ground

> >

> >The two systems would have different characteristics and purposes and 

> >therefore different inspection schedules and procedures.

> >

> >For electrical and lightning grounds, they should be inspected after 

> >every known electrical event. I used to physically check during 

> >weekly transmitter inspections. I've usually not done a more indepth 

> >analysis unless there is an increase in storm or electrical damage.

> >

> >For antenna radials. The system performance usually degrades which 

> >will initiate inspection but I typically do a full inspection every

> >2-3 years if the antenna system is stable.

> >

> >Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

> >

> >-----Original Message-----

> >From: A9xw at cs.com

> >

> >Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 13:12:38

> >To:barryt at sbe.org

> >Subject: Re: [SBE] conversation topic: how often do you check tower 

> >ground

> >

> >

> >We're discussing ground system life, how often to check, maintenance 

> >intervals, etc. Both radial and rods.

> >

> > Henry

>

> _______________________________________________

> SBE mailing list

> To unsubscribe, go to http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/options/sbe

> _______________________________________________

> SBE at sbe.org

> http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/sbe

>



------------------------------

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End of SBE Digest, Vol 30, Issue 6
**********************************


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