[SBE] SBE Digest, Vol 34, Issue 3

[MSKFINE]

At 10:30 AM 3/17/2008, you wrote:

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>SBE Roundtable

>

>Today's Topics:

>

>    1. Re: Industry retirement situation (A9xw at cs.com)

>    2. Re: Industry retirement situation (Gary Kline)

>    3. Re: Industry retirement situation (k7cr)

>    4. Re: Industry retirement situation (Mark Fehlig)

>    5. Re: SBE Chapter Attendance & Membership (Hall, Steven)

>    6. Can Your Manager Tell Ysbeou What You Do For A living?

>       (Sam Garfield)

>    7. Re: Industry retirement situation (Dave Dybas)

>    8. Re: Industry retirement situation (Jeremy D. Morris)

>    9. Re: Discussion topics (Kent Winrich)

>

>

>----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>Message: 1

>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:01:43 EDT

>From: A9xw at cs.com

>Subject: Re: [SBE] Industry retirement situation

>To: sbe at sbe.org

>Message-ID: <c57.2afe98fe.350fe1d7 at cs.com>

>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

>

>Rule #1  anticipation.  Nothing upsets the boss more than having a surprise

>expense. When budgeting, try and anticipate every possible expense and have a

>contingency fund or an unplanned expense fund. Things as premature tube

>failures, changes in taxes, impact of CC rules, etc. ascertainment 

>expenses, public

>file rules changes. If the FCC is talking about it, then it should 

>have a WHAT

>IF in the budget.

>

>Henry

>

>

>

>------------------------------

>

>Message: 2

>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:06:03 -0400

>From: "Gary Kline" <gary.kline at cumulus.com>

>Subject: Re: [SBE] Industry retirement situation

>To: "'sbe member discussion mail list'" <sbe at sbe.org>

>Message-ID: <002101c88840$6b5c1360$42143a20$@kline at cumulus.com>

>Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

>

>Perhaps the NAB would make available to the SBE a video of the management

>session.  That video could be made available to everyone on the SBE web

>site.

>

>

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: sbe-bounces at sbe.org [mailto:sbe-bounces at sbe.org] On Behalf Of Robert

>Combs

>Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 10:53 AM

>To: 'sbe member discussion mail list'

>Subject: Re: [SBE] Industry retirement situation

>

>I, for one, think that the SBE is a great organization...even if I don't

>agree with everything that comes out of the head office. There are some

>great books available through the book store that can help with our

>continued education.

>

>At some point, we as engineers have to take responsibility for our own

>actions and improve ourselves. One way is by learning how to adapt to

>today's "corporate world". I can tell you it has been tough for me to do

>that and I still have to struggle sometimes. Even at 40, I tend to have a

>temper like had in my 20s at times.

>

>Most of us are Managers now, not just engineers, and that means we need to

>have not only managerial skills but also proper "people skills" and social

>skills. We can no longer hide in the shop or at the transmitter site. We

>have to be available for every department in the building and need to know

>how every department works. The bottom line is I was hired to do a job and

>even if the job description changes weekly, I still have a job that I am

>paid to do. If I don't like it, I have two choices...deal with it or change

>jobs.

>

>The program that is coming up at the NAB about learning how to talk to

>management sounds like it will be a very good start, but I agree that I will

>not pay the high NAB package price just to attend. I think it should be a

>part of the SBE program for the week or at least available to SBE members. I

>also think some course programs or books in time management or just

>management in general would be a good thing.

>

>Robert Combs

>Market Chief Engineer

>Savannah, GA

>

>

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: sbe-bounces at sbe.org [mailto:sbe-bounces at sbe.org] On Behalf Of k7cr

>Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 7:07 PM

>To: sbe member discussion mail list

>Subject: Re: [SBE] Industry retirement situation

>

>Well said, Robert -

>

>Seems that no matter what field we find ourselves in, when

>things don't go the way we want them to, or changes are

>headed our way....Some of our first thoughts are to fight

>back or to feel that, for some reason, our field is the only

>one.   When was the last time you saw a Radio/TV repair

>shop?...Or a Service Station (with full service)...A tube-

>tester in a Grocery Store.  Reel to Reel tapes in a station

>etc etc.  These are all changes that we MUST adapt to

>or, as the General said...We will become irrelevant.

>

>My question to you is this - How can SBE, as an

>organization of our peers, help those that are struggling

>with this issue at this time?

>

>As a person that sets at the BOD table, I'd like to hear

>what you and others think.

>

>Clay Freinwald

>

>

>----- Original Message -----

>From: "Robert Combs" <robert.combs at cumulus.com>

>To: "'sbe member discussion mail list'" <sbe at sbe.org>

>Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 3:54 PM

>Subject: Re: [SBE] Industry retirement situation

>

>

> > General Erin Shenseki once said "If you don't like change, you are going

> > to

> > like irrelevance even less". That is one thing that I enjoy about being an

> > engineer, the ever changing challenges. Granted I am not an IT person, in

> > fact I know enough to really screw a network up if I want to. But that

> > does

> > not keep me from trying to learn. Radio today has changed so much within

> > the

> > last few years, and it will have to continue this change to survive. Most

> > corporate big wigs do not even call it radio anymore...it is now a CDS

> > (Commercial Delivery System).

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -----Original Message-----

> > From: sbe-bounces at sbe.org [mailto:sbe-bounces at sbe.org] On Behalf Of k7cr

> > Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 6:43 PM

> > To: barryt at sbe.org; sbe member discussion mail list

> > Subject: Re: [SBE] Industry retirement situation

> >

> >

> >

> > IMHO, we in our little industry are feeling what many others, in other

> >

> > fields, have felt for a long time.   The bottom line is this - There is

> >

> > nothing more constant than change !.   If change is a given (which I

> > believe

> >

> >

> > it is) then those that adapt to change will be spared, those that do not,

> >

> > will not.  I've been in this business for some 47 years and over that

> > span,

> >

> > I've seen a lot of changes !  Along the way I have also known those that,

> >

> > for various reasons, were unable or unwilling to adapt and have left the

> >

> > industry.    To me, change represents opportunity.   This is again a basic

> >

> > concept that could be referred to as the survival of the fittest.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Clay Freinwald

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> >

> > SBE mailing list

> >

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> >

> >

>

>

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>

>

>------------------------------

>

>Message: 3

>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 08:32:30 -0700

>From: "k7cr" <k7cr at blarg.net>

>Subject: Re: [SBE] Industry retirement situation

>To: "sbe member discussion mail list" <sbe at sbe.org>

>Message-ID: <005801c88844$1e365510$0200a8c0 at DB36LQ71>

>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";

>         reply-type=original

>

>Well said, Henry, I know of several situations where management

>does not let the Engineer be involved in finances, perhaps because

>the Engineer has not demonstrated his competency in that area.

>Perhaps because of the feeling that this is not - our - area.  In this

>day and age, we need to acquire the skills that will permit us to

>advance and these are often skill-sets that are non-traditional.

>

>Clay Freinwald

>

>

>----- Original Message -----

>From: <A9xw at cs.com>

>To: <sbe at sbe.org>

>Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 8:01 AM

>Subject: Re: [SBE] Industry retirement situation

>

>

> > Rule #1  anticipation.  Nothing upsets the boss more than having a

> > surprise

> > expense. When budgeting, try and anticipate every possible expense and

> > have a

> > contingency fund or an unplanned expense fund. Things as premature tube

> > failures, changes in taxes, impact of CC rules, etc. ascertainment

> > expenses, public

> > file rules changes. If the FCC is talking about it, then it should have a

> > WHAT

> > IF in the budget.

> >

> > Henry

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> > SBE mailing list

> > To unsubscribe, go to http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/options/sbe

> > _______________________________________________

> > SBE at sbe.org

> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/sbe

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>------------------------------

>

>Message: 4

>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:46:41 -0400

>From: "Mark Fehlig" <mfehlig at gpb.org>

>Subject: Re: [SBE] Industry retirement situation

>To: <k7cr at blarg.net>,<sbe at sbe.org>

>Message-ID: <47DE5A2E020000560002C29E at mailhost.gpb.org>

>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

>

>Great point!

>

>I find the MBA that Harris put me thru in 1988 has been quite a resource.

>I did that not as much to "get ahead" - but to "keep up."

>

>In fact I am now knee deep in the business end of things.

>

>Never stop learning!

>

>Mark Fehlig

>CPBE, MBA

>

>

> >>> "k7cr" <k7cr at blarg.net> 03/17/08 11:32 AM >>>

>Well said, Henry, I know of several situations where management

>does not let the Engineer be involved in finances, perhaps because

>the Engineer has not demonstrated his competency in that area.

>Perhaps because of the feeling that this is not - our - area.  In this

>day and age, we need to acquire the skills that will permit us to

>advance and these are often skill-sets that are non-traditional.

>

>Clay Freinwald

>

>

>----- Original Message -----

>From: <A9xw at cs.com>

>To: <sbe at sbe.org>

>Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 8:01 AM

>Subject: Re: [SBE] Industry retirement situation

>

>

> > Rule #1  anticipation.  Nothing upsets the boss more than having a

> > surprise

> > expense. When budgeting, try and anticipate every possible expense and

> > have a

> > contingency fund or an unplanned expense fund. Things as premature tube

> > failures, changes in taxes, impact of CC rules, etc. ascertainment

> > expenses, public

> > file rules changes. If the FCC is talking about it, then it should have a

> > WHAT

> > IF in the budget.

> >

> > Henry

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> > SBE mailing list

> > To unsubscribe, go to http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/options/sbe

> > _______________________________________________

> > SBE at sbe.org

> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/sbe

> >

> >

>

>

>_______________________________________________

>SBE mailing list

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>

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>

>------------------------------

>

>Message: 5

>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:55:26 -0400

>From: "Hall, Steven" <StevenHall at ionmedia.tv>

>Subject: Re: [SBE] SBE Chapter Attendance & Membership

>To: "sbe member discussion mail list" <sbe at sbe.org>

>Message-ID:

>         <E3AB509511B5654C855D1349FC37C6EE76A769 at CORPSEMAIL.ION.media>

>Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

>

>  Amen to that one Sam! I'd be up for it, even willing to be invovled

>(gasp) with it.

>Steven Hall CPBE

>WGPX 16 Greensboro, NC

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: sbe-bounces at sbe.org [mailto:sbe-bounces at sbe.org] On Behalf Of Sam

>Garfield

>Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 2:02 PM

>To: sbe member discussion mail list

>Subject: [SBE] SBE Chapter Attendance & Membership

>

>Any thoughts on Internet SBE Chapter? Where members could sign in, and

>attend a Web seminar given by a guest.

>A moderator to coordinate the chat following the presentation.

>

>With a Web based chapter SBE Members who do not have a local chapter

>within reasonable drive time, or unable to attend local chapter meetings

>due to circumstances as mentioned below, could become more involved in

>SBE activities.

>

>Sam

>

>

>------------------------------

>

>Message: 6

>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:07:53 -0400

>From: Sam Garfield <Sgarfield at dilicast.com>

>Subject: [SBE] Can Your Manager Tell Ysbeou What You Do For A living?

>To: sbe member discussion mail list <sbe at sbe.org>

>Message-ID: <47DE9759.6010107 at dilicast.com>

>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>

>I have ofter told my fellow Engineers, that the test of a good General

>Manager is to ask him for directions to the transmitter site.

>

>As often said, being in the communications business, we don't communicate.

>

>The Station Engineer has enough on his mind, let alone doing Public

>Relations with his Boss and Peers.

>

>May I suggest that SBE National assist us in promoting our profession to

>Ownership & General Managers. If your read the SBE By-Laws, it certainly

>gives you that impression that the SBE National has that charge.

>*

>BY-LAWS of the Society of Broadcast Engineers, Inc. (as amended October

>2004)

>ARTICLE I. NAME AND PURPOSES - *(as amended October 2004)*

>Section 2. Purposes. The purposes for which the corporation is organized

>are as follows:*

>     (a) The diffusion and increase of knowledge about broadcast

>engineering, and the promotion and advancement of this profession and

>its companion fields for both theoretical and practical applications

>necessary to advance the art.

>     (b) The establishment of professional education, training and

>competence for persons engaged in the profession of broadcast

>engineering and its allied fields; and to afford professional

>recognition to its practitioners signifying the achievement of these

>standards.

>     (c) The stimulation of interest in broadcast engineering and its

>allied fields to sustain the profession, encouragement of the interplay

>and intercourse of ideas to advance the art, and the promotion and

>maintenance of the highest professional standards among its members to

>allow them to conduct their professional actions in the scale of

>exemplary ethical standards.

>     (d) *The creation of working alliances and meeting of minds with all

>elements of the broadcast and communications industry*, including the

>FCC and the ultimate recipient of that which we practice, the viewers

>and listeners.

>

>Perhaps a mailing to the Ownership, General Managers that provide

>insight into who we are and what we do for a living may be the first

>step in getting the point across that we are an asset, not a liability.

>

>Sam

>

>

>

>

>------------------------------

>

>Message: 7

>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 11:11:41 -0500

>From: "Dave Dybas" <dd92251 at aol.com>

>Subject: Re: [SBE] Industry retirement situation

>To: "'sbe member discussion mail list'" <sbe at sbe.org>

>Message-ID:

> 

><!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAPztj5V0DZRJjTHdvDBbIoTCgAAAEAAAAKQZcIEgD9xNqCsiD8thpOABAAAAAA==@aol.com>

>

>Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

>

>

>It is one thing to be involved in the budgeting process but when all is said

>and done, it's up to management, sometimes at the Corporate level, to

>approve that budget. Personally, I didn't enter into Engineering to become a

>financial diplomat...learning all the personal/people skills necessary to

>persuade management to spend money on the technical necessities.

>

>Honestly, if I possessed all those "people" and managerial skills that

>others on this reflector suggest, and I enjoyed exercising them, I would be

>financially better off in Sales or Operations.

>

>I think we're ignoring the 5 ton white elephant in the room, and that is the

>station manager. Until station managers learn to extend themselves and learn

>that communications with the engineer requires effort on their part as well,

>we will continue to have disgruntled engineers.

>

>Dr. Dave

>

>

>

>

>Subject: Re: [SBE] Industry retirement situation

>

>Well said, Henry, I know of several situations where management

>does not let the Engineer be involved in finances, perhaps because

>the Engineer has not demonstrated his competency in that area.

>Perhaps because of the feeling that this is not - our - area.  In this

>day and age, we need to acquire the skills that will permit us to

>advance and these are often skill-sets that are non-traditional.

>

>Clay Freinwald

>

>

>

>

>------------------------------

>

>Message: 8

>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:21:03 -0400

>From: "Jeremy D. Morris" <jeremym at ppionline.com>

>Subject: Re: [SBE] Industry retirement situation

>To: "sbe member discussion mail list" <sbe at sbe.org>

>Message-ID:

>         <E07E23DB64D85A4D8446A48C287FE9480187DEEE at ex2.HQDOMAIN.LOCAL>

>Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

>

>I had a problem with "I told you so" at my old station.  That's why I'm

>no longer there.  I was dealing with a self-taught engineer who was our

>station owner/GM (SCARRY!) who had no problem fixing his station with

>Radio Shack adapters.  Having to nurse along over 30 Umatic decks,

>airing programming on used eBay tape stock, and using Video Toaster 3.0

>as your master control switcher had it's breaking point.

>

>

>Jeremy Morris | Field Service Engineer/ACSR

>Professional Products, Inc.

>9116 Gaither Road | Gaithersburg, Maryland  20877

>Direct 240-864-4029 | Fax 240-864-0011

>Main 240-864-4000

>jeremym at ppionline.com | www.professionalproducts.com

>

>

>Guided by Technology. Driven by Knowledge. Excellence Through

>Innovation.

>Professional Video, Audio, Data & Control Solutions.

>

>

>

>

>

>-----Original Message-----

>From: sbe-bounces at sbe.org [mailto:sbe-bounces at sbe.org] On Behalf Of Dave

>Dybas

>Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 12:12 PM

>To: 'sbe member discussion mail list'

>Subject: Re: [SBE] Industry retirement situation

>

>

>It is one thing to be involved in the budgeting process but when all is

>said

>and done, it's up to management, sometimes at the Corporate level, to

>approve that budget. Personally, I didn't enter into Engineering to

>become a

>financial diplomat...learning all the personal/people skills necessary

>to

>persuade management to spend money on the technical necessities.

>

>Honestly, if I possessed all those "people" and managerial skills that

>others on this reflector suggest, and I enjoyed exercising them, I would

>be

>financially better off in Sales or Operations.

>

>I think we're ignoring the 5 ton white elephant in the room, and that is

>the

>station manager. Until station managers learn to extend themselves and

>learn

>that communications with the engineer requires effort on their part as

>well,

>we will continue to have disgruntled engineers.

>

>Dr. Dave

>

>

>

>

>Subject: Re: [SBE] Industry retirement situation

>

>Well said, Henry, I know of several situations where management

>does not let the Engineer be involved in finances, perhaps because

>the Engineer has not demonstrated his competency in that area.

>Perhaps because of the feeling that this is not - our - area.  In this

>day and age, we need to acquire the skills that will permit us to

>advance and these are often skill-sets that are non-traditional.

>

>Clay Freinwald

>

>

>_______________________________________________

>SBE mailing list

>To unsubscribe, go to http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/options/sbe

>_______________________________________________

>SBE at sbe.org

>http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/sbe

>

>

>------------------------------

>

>Message: 9

>Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 12:30:43 -0400

>From: "Kent Winrich" <kwinrich at gmail.com>

>Subject: Re: [SBE] Discussion topics

>To: "sbe member discussion mail list" <sbe at sbe.org>

>Message-ID:

>         <615f119e0803170930w5a4d9dc6oe1aff0f776ba5569 at mail.gmail.com>

>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>

><rant mode>

>

>Clay I think you are hitting right on a topic near and dear to my heart.....

>Younger engineers.

>

>I have been harping on an number of boards and reflectors.. what have YOU

>been doing to keep this business going?  Are you (not you Clay.. "you" in

>general) mentoring anyone?  Have you taken anyone to the transmitter site?

>Do you have someone over your shoulder for a day to see what you do?  Mainly

>I get silence.... to me that means most people are doing NOTHING.  The

>"kids" I work with are more than willing to do the work, but they don't know

>what to do.  What appears to be laziness, is actually fear of doing

>something wrong.  Give them proper direction and they do just fine.

>

>I was hoping that SBE might be a path for younger engineers.  After some of

>the rounds here, maybe not.

>

>See, I work with about 30 - 50 potential engineers PER YEAR here on Ft Bragg

>(and there are many more across the country and around the world, plus some

>of my co-workers as well).  These are people that are educated, but may need

>a little help from the engineering community..... some guidance and hand

>holding.... mentoring.  To be honest the comment about this being useless

>chatter is in a direct OPPOSITE direction: stiffing communication between

>members, discouraging new people to chime in, and not helping younger

>engineers understand what is out there and what other people are dealing

>with.  Even if it is as "trivial" as tower heights.  You have created this

>list Chriss, so I guess it is yours.

>

>What many older engineers forget is that all the information you have in

>your heads and you find boring, are exciting and interesting to many others,

>especially new engineers.  Trust me.

>

>I am sure at one point all of us were the star eyed engineers, and had the

>helping hand of another engineer.  I was very fortunate to have a wonderful

>Regional VP of Engineering when I was at Clear Channel!

>

>So if it doesn't help YOU in YOUR business, well excuse me!  Unless your

>delete key is broken it should not be a big deal.  And if you have an email

>reflector going to your Blackberry... well what do you expect from an email

>reflector? (which is why I DONT have a reflector going to my Treo).

>

>Not all topics interests me.  So I delete it.  End of story.  If there is no

>interest in a topic it will die on its own.

>

>As of right now, I am not seeing any real benefit from my membership to

>SBE.  AND, I don't see any real help for younger engineers.  Heck even on

>the SBE web site you need to be a member just to see the internships

>available.  If I were a potential engineer I would just click out and go on

>to another site.  Or is it that there are no internships?!?!

>

>In regards to education, there are two seminars... and they are on

>leadership??  Unless you are a VP of Engineering, this is useless (IMHO) as

>members are typically a one man shop.

>

>What about these new technologies?  Where are the seminars for those?  What

>about "old" (but never changing) technologies.... I had to go outside of SBE

>to go to an AM transmission seminar.  Why isn't SBE doing things like that?

>Just because the older members know about these things, doesn't mean other

>or new members don't need education like that.

>

>What about the chapters??  Has anyone visited any of the Chapter web sites?

>I did a random click on a few....

>

>First One:

>Next Meeting December 1st

>

>Next one:

>Past Meeting December, Next meeting TBA

>

>Third:

>Next meeting August, 2006!?!?!

>

>Fourth:

>UP-TO-DATE NEWSLETTER!! (Way to go Milwaukee!! And always he best meetings

>too!)

>

>Fifth:

>No meetings currently scheduled??

>

>Sixth:

>WOW San Diego!  AWESOME!

>

>Seventh:

>web site cannot be found

>

>And so on....

>

>I guess my point is (in a rambling manner) is that if we:

>1) don't communicate with each other

>2) don't mentor our younger people

>3) belittle younger engineers

>4) don't share the history of engineering

>5) don't educate the members we presently have

>then we are doomed as a business and an organization.

>

>You want new members and new engineers?  Get off the high horse and get to

>the level of the new potential engineer.  There are some incredible

>engineering minds here that I and others have a lot to learn from.

>

>I am sure I have ruffled some feathers.  My apologies to those people. But I

>figure if we don't express our concerns then nothing gets done.

>

>Kent Winrich, K9EZ

>Broadcast Engineer, Systems Analyst III

>BAE Systems - Ft Bragg, NC

>---and---

>BroadcastPro.Biz

>Raleigh, NC

>

></rant mode>

>

>On Thu, Mar 13, 2008 at 11:28 PM, k7cr <k7cr at blarg.net> wrote:

>

> > Fred posed this question -

> >

> > > Are there any figures on what percentage of current SBE members are

> > > within five years of retirement?  Ten years?  It goes by rather

> > > quickly...and then what?

> >

> > This issue goes well beyond the matter of where SBE will find it's new

> > members.

> > I am within 5 years of retirement (my choice) and as I look over my

> > shoulder

> > I find no-one chomping at the bit to take my job...much less even apply

> > for

> > it.

> >

> > No one wants to get dirty, put on chains on all 4 and head up the mountain

> > in the middle of the night to work on something analog with 8kv on the

> > inside.

> >

> > When I started in this business back in 1961 there were plenty of young

> > Hams that were eager to apply their skills to things in a broadcast

> > operation...

> > but today those folks are old too.

> >

> > Largely broadcasting, Radio and TV, have become computer based operations

> > with the bit of analog tossed in just to rattle the minds of those that

> > think that

> > 15 volts is high-voltage and who are totally confused by schematics.   In

> > many

> > ways these folks are disconnected from the world that we knew and, in some

> > cases, continue to operate within.

> >

> > I could go on and on -

> >

> > My $.02

> >

> > Clay Freinwald, K7CR

> > Member of the Board

> >

> >

>

>

>------------------------------

>

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>

>End of SBE Digest, Vol 34, Issue 3

>**********************************