[SBE] SBE Digest, Vol 235, Issue 1

[Charles Stutsman]

In Reply to Henry

Amen!

Charles 


Charles Stutsman CSTE, CBNT, 8VSB
Senior Transmitter Engineer
WAVY-TV/WVBT-TV
charles.stutsman at wavy.com
(757) 396-6183 ofc
(757) 567-4532 cell 
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SBE Roundtable

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: In Need of Mentoring (R.V.Zeigler)
   2. In Need of Mentoring (k7cr)
   3. Re: In Need of Mentoring (Edwin Bukont)
   4. Re: In Need of Mentoring (Adrienne  Abbott)
   5. Re: In Need of Mentoring (Glenn Little WB4UIV)
   6. Re: In Need of Mentoring (Eargle, Ray L)
   7. Re: In Need of Mentoring (Henry M. Seiden)
   8. Re: In Need of Mentoring (russ at russvanderhorst.info)
   9. Mentoring (A9xw at cs.com)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:18:03 -0500
From: "R.V.Zeigler" <rzeigler at krvn.com>
Subject: Re: [SBE] In Need of Mentoring
To: sbe member discussion mail list <sbe at sbe.org>
Message-ID: <4AD275BB.2080803 at krvn.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

I would like to interject a few things from personal experience into
this very interesting thread.
I serve on the electronics department advisory committee for a community
college. The committee is made up of about 25 or 30 people in various
electronics related industries that would hire the students graduating
from this institution. At the first meeting I attended the advisers were
split up into groups of 5 or so and participated in Q&A sessions with
different groups of students on a rotating basis. The students
predominant questions were about compensation packages followed by job
locations. All of the other advisers entry level positions were well
above starting salary and benefits for any broadcast organization that I
am aware of. Along with that, the far majority of other advisers had
current openings that they needed to fill immediately. The school was
bemoaning the fact that they did not have enough students in the
graduating class to fill the vacancies. I did my best to paint the
broadcast industry in a good light but some of the jobs offered even
piqued my interest for a few seconds!

We have one young man that does some part time IT work for us. He sat in
my office for an hour after work one day discussing his future with me. 
I was honest with him about the broadcast industry in general and
broadcast engineering in particular. He is most probably going to go
back to school to finish his IT degree and find a position in that
field.

I am also trying to "guide" one of my sons towards our profession. I
doubt that I will get it done. He has helped me quite a bit on a number
of projects over the years and could probably install a transmitter by
himself, but he tells me "You work too hard and too long". He wants to
follow one of his older brothers into law enforcement.

I really do love my current position and hope to retire from here
sometime in the future. I do feel that you almost (emphasis on almost)
have to "love" broadcast engineering to the exclusion of all else to
stay in it now, at least in the far majority of positions that are still
filled.

sigh....................

--
R. V. Zeigler, Dir. of Eng.
Nebraska Rural Radio Assn.
KRVN-KTIC-KNEB
rzeigler at krvn.com


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:04:33 -0700
From: "k7cr" <k7cr at blarg.net>
Subject: [SBE] In Need of Mentoring
To: "sbe member discussion mail list" <sbe at sbe.org>
Message-ID: <2737B59E2A8545AB8C937E465A93E3FC at DB36LQ71>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

I just can't leave this one alone - 

I really do love my current position and hope to retire from here 
sometime in the future. I do feel that you almost (emphasis on almost) 
have to "love" broadcast engineering to the exclusion of all else to 
stay in it now, at least in the far majority of positions that are still

filled.

A couple of thoughts come to mind - 


> Old broadcast engineers don't retire - they just fade away 

(borrowing heavily from someone famous I think) 


> If you love your work - Why retire?   Except for that

damn cellphone and/or pager.


> Remember that RF - IS - good for you.   Especially in a 

world where jobs are scarce and no one wants to deal with
anything north of 24 volts.

Clay 



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 22:26:56 -0400
From: Edwin Bukont <ebukont at msn.com>
Subject: Re: [SBE] In Need of Mentoring
To: sbe <sbe at sbe.org>
Message-ID: <SNT109-W33FD66EDFEFEDBC52261CFA9C80 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


For a good perspective, check out what Cisco charges per hour for a
Sunday evening service visit.  And that's for a guy/gal who knows 'only'
IT.

Edwin Bukont CSRE, DRB, CBNT 
V- 240.417.2475; F- 240.368.1265 

 
 		 	   		  
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:39:29 -0700
From: "Adrienne  Abbott" <weathertop at charter.net>
Subject: Re: [SBE] In Need of Mentoring
To: "'sbe member discussion mail list'" <sbe at sbe.org>
Message-ID: <refT1c0071XfjoT05efTax at charter.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Clay wrote:

> Old broadcast engineers don't retire - they just fade away

(borrowing heavily from someone famous I think)

Do you know any engineers who are really retired? I mean, retired as in
sitting in a rocking chair or gone fishing retired? One engineer I know
has
been trying to "sit-in-a-rocking-chair retire" for years but his station
won't let him go because there's no one to take his place. And he won't
leave the station until there's someone who can handle the job. 

Several other guys in our area have "retired" as in layoffs and cutbacks
and
now they're doing only contract work. Are they getting rich? No, It's
still
broadcasting and while contract work is nothing new in this business,
these
guys are  working harder now than when they were full-time employees
because
they are responsible for so many stations. 

They may be making a little more money than before because they have tax
advantages they didn't have as full-time employees. But they also tend
to
get more respect from station managers who seem to realize that they
better
be nice to the guy they have to call out in the middle of holiday
weekend or
a blizzard because if they aren't, they guy might not answer the phone
next
time. They also get mileage and extra pay when they are called out on
weekends and holidays and to a certain extent, they can pick their
employers
and their hours. In spite of all the cutbacks they are doing well right
now
because there's more contract work than contract workers in this area
and
it's less expensive for a station to have a contract engineer than to
employee one full time. 

What it comes to is that fewer than two dozen guys keep the 400+ radio
and
TV stations in this state on the air. Again, we can spend a lot of time
arguing whether or not this situation is better for the industry, but
it's a
fact of life here that's probably not going to change anytime soon. 
Adrienne




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 23:22:59 -0400
From: Glenn Little WB4UIV <glennmaillist at bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: [SBE] In Need of Mentoring
To: sbe member discussion mail list <sbe at sbe.org>
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20091011225556.052ded60 at mail.bellsouth.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

I entered the broadcast engineering world 6 years ago with no 
training in broadcast..
49 years ago I started working with electronics building things out 
of car radios.
I entered amateur radio in 1970 with a novice class license followed 
in two years by a technician class.
After serving 22 years in the submarine service as a computer (main 
frame) technician, I worked as a video tape unit repairman.
This was followed by a year as a military contractor designing a 
redundant power supply controller.
The next five years was spent reverse engineering a computerized 
controller and doing site surveys to determine the source of lightning
damage.
I was laid off for 16 months when I finally found a job as a 
broadcast engineer at a local TV station.
After being passed over for a assistant chief engineer job I quit 
that station and started where I now work.
I started as a broadcast engineer, soon to be promoted to assistant 
chief followed about a year later to chief engineer.
I have no formal training in electronics other than that from the US 
Navy as a Polaris Electronics Tech.

My skills are self taught.
My job was maintaining the 25KW analog TV transmitter as well as all 
aspects of the studio.
We are now converting the studio and master control to digital where 
I am maintaining the new drawings and ensuring that every thing is 
correctly documented.
In the past I have been called while out of town, on vacation, with 
the transmitter off air. My first choice as to the failure was what 
had happened (an open circuit breaker).

This just goes to show that someone with good general electronics 
knowledge fits in quite well as a broadcast engineer.
My electronics knowledge and experience is in designing and fixing my 
own equipment.
I repair to the component. Swapping boards gets you back on the air 
quickly, but board level knowledge sure keeps things going while 
keeping the budget in line.

Learn what you can by whatever means is necessary. Formal training is 
not an absolute necessity. Have a good work ethic. Do not live by the 
clock. Learn and understand the plant. You will go a long way until 
the transmitters are fully shut down to only feed the cable and 
satellite providers.

73
Glenn Little
WB4UIV Amateur Extra
WCIV TV CE



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 00:19:35 -0400
From: "Eargle, Ray L" <REargle at hearst.com>
Subject: Re: [SBE] In Need of Mentoring
To: sbe member discussion mail list <sbe at sbe.org>
Message-ID:
	
<8BAA32E64E80A747BAD182DAA093A7CA17AFFBCB17 at RCLTEXVS01.resource.hearstco
rp.com>
	
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

  The problem is most of all the playing flied has change for today
Engineer. You need to ask your self what I want for my work skills, what
field can I real advance in, what Education I will need to get the best
in pay back for my future.

Today's broadcast engineer must know such a wide range of skills,
electronic, computers, carpentry, fabrication, promotions, editing,
filming, lighting, pluming, security, painting and janitorial etc. As
you see a broadcast engineer is more than one field of skills and
studies. I can not say all I would, but Broadcasting is worth it, if you
enjoy an adventure, a fairly good salary you will do ok with technical
school and an A.S degree, but, better B.S. degree.

 If you really want to get your Engineering degrees go for it all you
can get your Bachelor of Science than your Masters. Now a better world
and better jobs in other fields will be open to you. Be smarter than the
average Engineer, build skill set in Electronic and computer. With this
you can go far. 

 Later in life you will always have I wanted too, but life will get in
the way and you will have to change your goals and settle. For my years
I know I have settle for doing ok. 

Good luck and choose wisely.

Ray Eargle
KG6ZWX
Broadcast Engineer 
KCRA /KQCA
916-325-3245       

-----Original Message-----
From: sbe-bounces at sbe.org [mailto:sbe-bounces at sbe.org] On Behalf Of
russ at russvanderhorst.info
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 1:55 PM
To: sbe member discussion mail list
Subject: Re: [SBE] In Need of Mentoring

Hi Jeff,

over the last 15 years, there has been a 'dumbing down' of high school
courses and students. I have literally seen high school honor society
students who couldn't multiply. 

This being the case (and don't get me wrong, I am not trying to start a
debate about h.s. 
education)...but wont some degree of technical knowledge beyond the h.s.
level be needed, even if that is just an associates degree?

Thanks,

Russ


On 11 Oct 2009 at 15:50, Jeff Carter wrote:


> What do you think will happen, long term?

> 

> I predict that technology will completely do away with the need for a 

> real engineer, and common tasks will be done by someone at a high 

> school competency.

> 

> For heavier things,  contracts with the transmitter manufacturer will 

> be the norm for the rare occasions that something must be serviced.

> 

> Jeff

> 

> On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Edwin Bukont <ebukont at msn.com> wrote:

> > Jeff is correct.

> >

> > We have two radio?CE's in?DC that did not even graduate HS.

> > One even brags about it!!??Some could care less about color codes, 

> > electrical codes, good practices etc.? I had?the DOE of a publicly 

> > traded group tell me that standards are a waste of my time and his 

> > money!!? TV appears to return a better value on the cost of 

> > education,,,but there are so many changes that the learning is 

> > quickly outdated.? I think vendor seminars are a better use of one's



> > time, talent and money.? Studio Hub has removed alot of the need to

spend money on learning audio wiring.

> >

> > Edwin Bukont CSRE, DRB, CBNT

> > V- 240.417.2475;?F-?240.368.1265

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > _______________________________________________

> > The SBE Roundtable, SBE at sbe.org

> > To unsubscribe, go to http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/options/sbe

> >

> > http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/sbe

> >

> _______________________________________________

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my webpage
http://russvanderhorst.info
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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:14:26 -0400
From: "Henry M. Seiden" <info at techworkspro.com>
Subject: Re: [SBE] In Need of Mentoring
To: sbe member discussion mail list <sbe at sbe.org>
Message-ID: <590F13AF-3ACD-4C17-A016-AC83F37720EE at techworkspro.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed";
	DelSp="yes"

Statistics, you say? I have a 101 year old aunt who lives in Israel  
and still gets her work delivered to her from her university where she  
has worked for 30+ years. Her mind today is incredible but her body  
frail! She no longer teaches but still works there albeit from her  
home, if you can believe it! You or your dad probably have heard of  
her as she used to lecture throughout the US years ago.

There are some places that have great respect for the elder masters,  
especially in statistics and math.


On Oct 11, 2009, at 18:17 , russ at russvanderhorst.info wrote:


> I have had a interest in broadcasting (the technical end) since high  

> school...but I followed in

> the steps of my great grand father, grand father, and father and  

> became a mathematican

> (and let me tell you...Great grand dad and grandpa were pure  

> mathemathematicans, dad

> was a statistician, and I was an applied mathematician...you aint  

> seen conversations like we

> used to have at the thanksgiving dinner table).


--

-------------- next part --------------



Techworks Professional Systems, Inc. Henry M. Seiden, Founder
henry<at>techworkspro<dot>com





------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:00:03 -0400
From: russ at russvanderhorst.info
Subject: Re: [SBE] In Need of Mentoring
To: sbe member discussion mail list <sbe at sbe.org>
Message-ID: <4AD35283.18581.D958A at russ.russvanderhorst.info>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Hi

Dad probably did know of her, however he is deceased now, so I cant
really ask him. 

Thanks,

Russ

On 12 Oct 2009 at 9:14, Henry M. Seiden wrote:


> Statistics, you say? I have a 101 year old aunt who lives in Israel  

> and still gets her work delivered to her from her university where she



> has worked for 30+ years. Her mind today is incredible but her body  

> frail! She no longer teaches but still works there albeit from her  

> home, if you can believe it! You or your dad probably have heard of  

> her as she used to lecture throughout the US years ago.

> 

> There are some places that have great respect for the elder masters,  

> especially in statistics and math.

> 

> 

> On Oct 11, 2009, at 18:17 , russ at russvanderhorst.info wrote:

> 

> > I have had a interest in broadcasting (the technical end) since high



> > school...but I followed in

> > the steps of my great grand father, grand father, and father and  

> > became a mathematican

> > (and let me tell you...Great grand dad and grandpa were pure  

> > mathemathematicans, dad

> > was a statistician, and I was an applied mathematician...you aint  

> > seen conversations like we

> > used to have at the thanksgiving dinner table).

> 

> --

> 

> 



my webpage
http://russvanderhorst.info


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 13:03:51 EDT
From: A9xw at cs.com
Subject: [SBE] Mentoring
To: sbe at sbe.org
Message-ID: <cbd.4c0aac38.3804bb77 at cs.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Many jobs in broadcasting for the most part no longer exist. The
telecine 
operator has gone the way of the dodo bird, but graphics arts from
simple 
Chyron to complicated Henry, Harry and other post devices need lots of 
operators. Production still requires editors, camera operators, TD's,
audio and 
other skilled people. And while editing no longer requires a 2 week
course on 
setting up the Quad machines, and Editec II Avid and Final Cut pro
programs 
and such do require skills to utilize and you still have to know where
to 
splice the tape (albeit its a hard drive file) to get the proper timing
and 
dramatic effect you want to tell the story. The newer equipment doesn't
need a 
professional photog to operate, but the better cameras and HD do require

photog skills, and a good product requires professional training. 

While some of my friends feel life in broadcasting is about to end, it
is 
simply evolving from old film and slide projectors and cantankerous
TK41's 
and other old stuff to TV station on a chip, someone still has to
connect the 
chips together and despite the world going digital, a lot of boxes are
not 
plug and play or compatible with other boxes. 

Production trucks still require a crew to operate and SAT/ENG trucks 
require knowledge and skill to use properly. 

We can't turn the clock back to B&W and mono audio although we might
think 
about it, we are in the age of 5.1 sound, HD in various flavors and DTV 
transmissions and MPEG encoders and fiber optics. 

Older programs were simpler productions because of the difficulty using 
technology, its limitations and the skills needed to make it work. Today

productions are more complex, maybe 20 layers of graphics and effects,
multiple 
video tracks and dozens on sound tracks, various clean, mixed and edited
or 
processed feeds, simulcast SD, HD, 16:9, 3:4, stereo mix down, etc.
Different 
conversions to serve streaming, OTA and archive or VOD or IPTV.  

We used to do one or two camera TV news programs, now its not unusual to

have 12 or more with POV, beauty shots, crowd shots, wx cams, traffic
cams, 
etc. A single news cast might have sat feeds, ENG feeds, SOT, compiled 
packages, produced packages, graphics, server playouts and lots more.
There are 
still producers, editors, writers, shooters, TD, audio mixers, remote 
coordinators, and someone yelling to get the wrong video off the screen.


Locally in Chicago there is Columbia College that teaches hands on 
broadcast/production stuff. Dave Mason is the CE and an instructor on
SOTA hardware. 
 312 369 7467 is the office number. 

Stations also have intern positions in many areas.   

So is now a good time to get into broadcasting?  Do what you love to do
and 
you'll be happy. Are some of our jobs now low pay, long hours, crummy 
bosses?   I bet its the same at McBurger.  But do you want to be paid to
watch 
TV, or handle customer complaints at Sears?  Do you want a feeling of
creative 
accomplishment or work on an assembly line at Toyota?  

Engineering has to be creative, just read the station stories in the 
broadcast publications. People are finding new ways to make it happen
and enjoying 
it.  

I've seen 45 years of change, and if I  include my tinkering with 
electronic stuff from age 4 with razor blade and safety pins, oat meal
boxes and cat 
whiskers, cactus needles, 12ax7, 21AXP22, 6066 and other ancient stuff
we're 
looking at 60 years.  I would not have missed it for the world. 

My stations just completed a new HD facility, bought a big production
truck 
and an ENG/SAT truck. just spent a week in DC going through a sat truck 
operators certification course and met a bunch of nice people from
around the 
world and networked with them.  Its a small industry and you see the
same 
faces over and over, even have some folks that have worked for me in 3 
different companies, traded jobs with others and been hired by a former
employee. 

I don't know what the equipment will be like in 50 years, but someone
still 
had to know how to use it, fix it, and connect it. And when you get as
old 
as some of us, you'll have lots of opinions and anecdotes to share as
well. 
And by that time if someone doesn't like what you think, so what. Kick
the 
nay sayers to the curb and keep on going. Do what you like to do. 

Regards,
Henry
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