[game_edu] Where to post academic job offers?

[Erin Hoffman]

Susan,

I don't believe I said that all game design positions reside or should
reside in computer science departments -- very far from it. My training is
in liberal arts primarily (my bachelor's is half in electronic art,
actually), though I also studied computer science. Mostly, though, I spent
most of my time in college making games outside of class. I don't think this
particularly qualified or disqualified me to become a game designer. I
certainly also think that people of all disciplines can benefit from
*studying* games. But if I were a student taking a game design class or a
professional recommending someone to a program that teaches game design,
yes, I would expect that instructor to have some relevant experience in game
design -- not animation, not computer science, not graphic design. Game
design. They are very, very different disciplines, and I find the latitude
with which some departments assume that because game design is
multidisciplinary that one should be qualified to *teach* it (not learn, not
study -- teach) out of established academic achievement in equally valuable
but utterly tangential fields quite disturbing.

I'm a bit baffled that I should be expected not to be surprised that someone
would be teaching something they have never experienced or engaged in
professionally. I honestly don't know what to say in reply to that, so I'll
change the subject.

I am curious what you all think of departments in sociology that teach
recreation and leisure. Most of them currently don't study games, but I
think they should. I have an article recently with the Escapist on the
recreation and leisure department at the University of Waterloo. (
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.55557 )

--Erin

On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 10:13 PM, S. Gold <goldfile at gmail.com> wrote:


>  Why do you think all game design positions reside in a computer science

> department? It is that silo approach to our genre that upsets me most in

> this discussion. How can you be surprised that a lot of game design

> instructors don't have experience? I just came back from a conference trying

> to help computer science professors add games into their curriculum to help

> increase low student numbers in CS. There are not that many instructors that

> actually have design/industry experience. We all try very hard to come to

> games in whatever way we can, they are all valid in my opinion as long as

> there is a passion for games and a willing to learn.

>

> Susan

>

>

>

> On 3/19/08 7:40 PM, "Erin Hoffman" <erin.n.hoffman at gmail.com> wrote:

>

> I think the confusion was in that from what Sean was saying, the position

> is being called game design but is an artist/animator position ("a term

> assistant professorship in computer game design.  It's an

> artist/animator/etc. position."). There is no question that a variety of

> training can produce a game designer, but I don't think animation/artist

> experience qualifies one to *teach* game design, which is certainly

> happening in some places (though I would be surprised to see it at a place

> like George Mason). But then I'm very surprised at the number of game design

> instructors I've found to have no game design experience at all. Like Mark I

> was curious what they're looking for, and it might be helpful to the

> committee to clarify either the title of the position (game art if it is

> game art, etc) or the expertise they're seeking.

>

> --Erin

>

> On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Roberts, Scott <sroberts at cti.depaul.edu>

> wrote:

>

> We should be careful in limiting people due to categories.  It isn't as if

> the skills of artists/designers (creative problem solving) *preclude *someone

> from being a game designer.  What's important is that the teacher should

> have experience in game design, but game designers can come from any

> background, and they do.

>

>

>

> The obvious example is Miyamoto.

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shigeru_Miyamoto#Early_life

>

>

>

> I spend a good amount of my time convincing game programmers that they can

> do visual design, so anything's possible. J

>

>

>

> Scott

>

>

>

>

>

> *From:* game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org]<game_edu-bounces at igda.org%5D>

> *On Behalf Of *Erin Hoffman

> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 19, 2008 6:47 PM

> *To:* IGDA Game Education Listserv

> *Subject:* Re: [game_edu] Where to post academic job offers?

>

>

>

> I had the same question, Mark. I've even seen "game design" taught by

> "graphic designers" in some places, which is pretty appalling.

>

> --Erin

>

> On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 7:35 PM, Mark Baldwin <mark at baldwinconsulting.org>

> wrote:

>

> Going off on a tangent here, but no one else has asked this, and I'm

> curious.  You stated you were looking for a professor of game design, but

> it

> was it is an artist/animator position.  This seems contradictory to me.

> While art skills are valuable to the game designer, they certainly are not

> required, and game design really uses other creative skills much more

> extensively.  Game design is generally not an artistic skill.  From my

> experience (25 years in industry as a designer), at least 80% of all game

> designers do not have any real experience as artist or animators.   Does

> anyone have a contradictory experience?

>

> Cheers,

> Mark

>

> ******************************************

>  Mark Lewis Baldwin

>  Associate Professor

>  Game Design and Development

>  University of Advancing Technology

>  303-526-9169

>  mbaldwin at uat.edu

>  http://baldwinconsulting.org

>  mar80401 (YIM, AIM, Skype)

> ******************************************

>

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: game_edu-bounces at igda.org [mailto:game_edu-bounces at igda.org]<game_edu-bounces at igda.org%5D>On Behalf

> Of Sean Luke

>

> Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 3:20 PM

> To: game_edu at igda.org

>

> Subject: [game_edu] Where to post academic job offers?

>

> GMU's college of visual and performing arts is soliciting for a term

> assistant professorship in computer game design.  It's an artist/

> animator/etc. position.  I am affiliated with the solicitation

> committee, but as a computer science professor rather than an artist,

> I personally was wondering where the best venues would be to solicit

> an artist in this slot.  In the CS world there are standard locations

> for placing ads for professorships.  Any guidance on the artist side

> of things for a budding program?

>

> Sean Luke

> Department of Computer Science

> George Mason University

>

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> --

> Susan Gold

> goldfile at gmail.com

>

> "In a completely sane world, madness is the only freedom!" - J. G. Ballard

>

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