[game_edu] Brenda Braithwaite's game_edu rant at GDC

[William Huber]

Brenda, by her own admission, once again, is learning how to program now.
Only now.

After about 20 years in the game industry, having designed dozens of games,
digital and non-digital.

So, from the question of a pure statement of fact, yes, one can in fact
design digital games without understanding how a digital information machine
works. She says as much. The experience of thousands of people in the
industry says as much.

The issue is, what kind of training should students have as they enter the
industry? What should hiring managers be looking for as they hire? How
should we as educators best prepare students for their long-term success, so
that they thrive as professionals throughout their lives? And what kind of
people do we want to present to the world at large as the people who will
design the content that children and young people will be consuming for
thousands of hours as they develop? The responsibilities here are multiple:
to the students, to the world at large, and to the field (of which "the
industry" is just one segment: the field also includes careers in making
serious games, careers in research, careers in interactive art and game-art,
and entrepreneurship.) Designing curriculum based on the short-term needs -
or laziness - of a few hiring managers strikes me as a bad, bad idea.

William Huber


On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 9:41 PM, <pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu> wrote:


>

> First of all, we should all remember that Computer Science is not

> "programming". That is simply a  misconception.

>

> However, programming is the gateway to understanding

> how digital information machines work. One should know this

> in order to design applications on such machines.

>

> If you don't understand a compression ratio or

> the concept of a torque converter, then can you really design sports

> cars? If you don't understand how a camera works, can you really be a

> director? Similarly, if you don't understand how the digital information

> machine works, then can you really design a digital game? (Or any

> useful application?) I honestly  don't think so.

>

> Ted Pawlicki

> Undergraduate Program Director

> Department of Computer Science

> University of Rochester

>

>

> > To push your metaphor a bit-do you need to be a mechanic to design cars,

> > because I'd argue that having specific programming skill is more similar

> > to the work of a mechanic than an engineer.  Mechanics know plenty about

> > what's under the hood.

> >

> > I don't think you need programming skills, I think you need formal logic

> > skills coupled with creativity. If you close the door on non-programmers,

> > you're losing an opportunity.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Sent from my iPhone

> >

> > Lindsay Grace

> > LGrace.com

> >

> >

> > On Mar 3, 2011, at 11:37 AM, "pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu"

> > <pawlicki at cs.rochester.edu> wrote:

> >

> >> Consider:

> >>

> >> Do you need to be an engineer to design a sports car?

> >>

> >> I think that you do. Sure sports cars are "fun". You can't

> >> design a sports car without understand issues of art, style,

> >> and the psychology of interaction with the machine and

> >> technology. Nonetheless, you need to be an engineer to

> >> design a car because you have to understand how the technology

> >> "under the hood" determines the user experience. The two

> >> are not separable.

> >>

> >> Likewise, and for the same reasons, you need to be an engineer

> >> to design a game. The technology is not separate from the

> >> user experience.

> >>

> >> Ted Pawlicki

> >> Department of Computer Science

> >> Hajim School of Engineering

> >> Univerisity of Rochester

> >>

> >>

> >>> 'Good', yes. But there are inferences in what you are saying that I'd

> >>> like to clarify.

> >>>

> >>> You are describing the process as a solo one. I think that's not usual,

> >>> and the role of the designer in the development team is not one that

> >>> involves programming (at least not necessarily). Programming is not a

> >>> big part of the design phase at all IMO, and only once one has a clear

> >>> design concept can you really build anything, then iterate it. Assuming

> >>> that the designer holds the game in their hands until it solidifies

> >>> into

> >>> a playable is not something I personally would do.

> >>>

> >>> JP

> >>>

> >>> On 3/3/2011 11:10 AM, Seth Sivak wrote:

> >>>> I think it is good for designers to be able to code.  They do not need

> >>>> to be "engineers" but be able to code enough to prototype their own

> >>>> designs.  As soon as you add in another person the iteration loop gets

> >>>> much longer, and the longer the loop the fewer iterations that can be

> >>>> completed.  Once the game is out of the design phase and more into

> >>>> production the game design role becomes more about problem solving

> >>>> than pure creativity, so at that point it is fine to no longer code

> >>>> and let pure engineers create the production level stuff.

> >>>>

> >>>> Seth

> >>>>

> >>>> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 12:53 PM, jparker <jparker at ucalgary.ca

> >>>> <mailto:jparker at ucalgary.ca>> wrote:

> >>>>

> >>>>    Interesting rant, and she certainly has credentials.

> >>>>

> >>>>    Still, I don't think that game designers are necessarily excellent

> >>>>    programmers. They need to understand limits and possibilities, and

> >>>>    to be able to communicate well with programmers. Game design is

> >>>>    not a programming task, and game development is not a software

> >>>>    business. It's a business that does involve software to be sure.

> >>>>    Computer science programs (in my observation over only the past 12

> >>>>    years) produce relatively poor game designers, as their focus is

> >>>>    rather different than that of most design fields. It makes as much

> >>>>    sense that a CS major could design a good chair or house as design

> >>>>    a good game. And in fact, the game programmers on a team

> >>>>    traditionally have relatively little input to the creative process

> >>>>    (again, there are certainly exceptions, and things are changing in

> >>>>    some places).

> >>>>

> >>>>    If a game designer has a vast knowledge of programming that could

> >>>>    be a good thing. I don't believe it to be a requirement. Thus the

> >>>>    question is 'is it worth the time needed to become an excellent

> >>>>    programmer'? That's hard to answer with authority.

> >>>>

> >>>>    Jim

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>    On 3/3/2011 8:38 AM, Peter Border wrote:

> >>>>

> >>>>        For anybody else who's stuck at home this week.

> >>>>

> >>>>

> http://bbrathwaite.wordpress.com/2011/03/01/built-on-a-foundation-of-code-game-edu-rant/

> >>>>

> >>>>        Peter Border

> >>>>        Game and Application Design Chairman

> >>>>        Globe University/Minnesota School of Business

> >>>>        1401 West 76th St

> >>>>        Richfield, MN 55423

> >>>>        pborder at msbcollege.edu <mailto:pborder at msbcollege.edu>

> >>>>        ________________________________________

> >>>>

> >>>>        _______________________________________________

> >>>>        game_edu mailing list

> >>>>        game_edu at igda.org <mailto:game_edu at igda.org>

> >>>>        http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>    --

> >>>>    From Hauptmann

> >>>>

>  --------------------------------------------------------------------

> >>>>    The inflated  style is itself a  kind of euphemism.  A mass of

> >>>> Latin

> >>>>    words falls upon the facts like soft snow, blurring the outlines

> >>>> and

> >>>>    covering up all  the details. The  great enemy of  clear language

> >>>> is

> >>>>    insincerity.                                          —George

> >>>> Orwell

> >>>>

> >>>>    Dr. J. R. Parker,                    Digital Media Laboratory

> >>>>    Professor of Play http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jparker

> >>>>    <http://www.ucalgary.ca/%7Ejparker>

> >>>>    Faculty of Fine Arts                 jparker@ ucalgary.ca

> >>>>    <http://ucalgary.ca>

> >>>>    University of Calgary                403-220-6784      AB606/AB611

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>    _______________________________________________

> >>>>    game_edu mailing list

> >>>>    game_edu at igda.org <mailto:game_edu at igda.org>

> >>>>    http://seven.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/game_edu

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>> --

> >>>> +Seth

> >>>

> >>> --

> >>> From Hauptmann

> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------

> >>> The inflated  style is itself a  kind of euphemism.  A mass of Latin

> >>> words falls upon the facts like soft snow, blurring the outlines and

> >>> covering up all  the details. The  great enemy of  clear language is

> >>> insincerity.                                          —George Orwell

> >>>

> >>> Dr. J. R. Parker,                    Digital Media Laboratory

> >>> Professor of Play                    http://www.ucalgary.ca/~jparker

> >>> Faculty of Fine Arts                 jparker@ ucalgary.ca

> >>> University of Calgary                403-220-6784      AB606/AB611

> >>>

> >>> _______________________________________________

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> >>>

> >>

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