[game_edu] Internship question

Tue Jan 27 17:16:58 EST 2015

Hey Ben,

I have re-negotiated non-competes and confidentiality agreements before
because they were too strict - It makes me feel a lot better after having a
lawyer look them over and change the phrasing to be both more in my favor
and more specific. Even at mid-level pay it is still unfair, especially
since we know lots of other things can happen with startups that damage
your experience - What if the product never gets released? What if there
are strict line items in the contract about working with former employees?
What if you're supposed to be working 40 hours a week, but it is really
more like 60 and you are salaried? There are many factors and if the
business is ethical they should be understanding that their employees would
need time to have someone look it over and possibly alter it.

No one wants to leave their internship experiences having no titles
released, unable to talk about the product, and a relatively unknown
startup credited on their profile, but this happens all the time. Often I
feel students are just better off making their own games. We see so many
good ones from scholars in the scholarship program that are much better
resume builders.

I wonder if they are just using a standard agreement that they drafted for
all employees as a CYA - if this is the case, they should be even more
understanding of altering it for a particular need.

Molly

On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Ben Chang <changb3 at rpi.edu> wrote:

>  Thanks!  That was my thought as well, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't
> giving poor advice.
>
> TBF the non-compete wasn't for all game development work; it applied to
> games with a similar topic and target audience, though to my mind that
> doesn't make it any better.  The company is a new startup that looks like
> it's also primarily people just out of school.  All of which tells me this
> is something I need to start covering in class.
>
> --Ben
>
> On 1/27/15 4:34 PM, Ian Schreiber via game_edu wrote:
>
>  Unpaid internships, regardless of anything else, are illegal in many
> states and are sketchy to begin with. Minimum wage is cheap, and a handful
> of paid interns isn't going to be the thing that makes or breaks a
> company's bottom line. They also have the down side of perpetuating a
> social class gap: students from disadvantaged backgrounds are less able to
> take an unpaid internship to begin with. I would tend to steer students
> away from unpaid internships in general (at least the good students; let
> the terrible students work for the company for free, as punishment to both
> the student and the company ;-). As for "you'll get great experience" - you
> know what else gives great experience without pay? Working on your own
> game. Have the interested students do that instead. As for "we might hire
> you if you do great work as an unpaid intern," if they underpay interns,
> I'd assume they don't treat you any better as a permanent employee, so
> that's not exactly a selling point either.
>
>  Non-competes are another red flag, ESPECIALLY at the intern level. To
> the extent that non-competes are okay, it's mainly to prevent someone like
> a team lead or director level employee from leaving the company and pulling
> half the dev team with them to start their own studio. (One could argue
> that a better defense against this situation is to treat your employees
> well enough that they wouldn't want to leave, rather than just sticking a
> legal poison bomb in their work contract, but whatever.) Telling a student
> that they can't work in the industry, though? I can't see any rational
> justification for this. Also, worth noting that non-competes are
> unenforceable in many jurisdictions.
>
>  Both of those things together? Not normal, definitely unethical,
> possibly illegal. I would stay far, far away. Definitely NOT the kind of
> place I would want my students to go.
>
>  If a student had other reasons that outweighed the negatives that made
> them really interested in this particular internship for some reason, I
> would have them research the labor laws in the state that the company lives
> in to see what their rights are.
>
>  - Ian
>
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* Ben Chang <changb3 at rpi.edu> <changb3 at rpi.edu>
> *To:* game_edu at igda.org
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 27, 2015 4:05 PM
> *Subject:* [game_edu] Internship question
>
> Hi all,
>
> I have a student who's been offered an unpaid internship.  The contract
> has as non-compete that would bar him from doing game dev work in a
> related field for one year after completion.  Is this normal for unpaid
> internship?  It seems disadvantageous.  The only value he receives from
> performing the work is experience to use towards future employment, but
> he would be prevented from seeking employment doing the thing he'd
> gotten experience doing.
>
> thanks,
>
> --Ben Chang
>
> --
> Benjamin Chang
> Associate Professor, Department of the Arts
> Director, Games and Simulation Arts and Sciences
> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
> 110 8th Street, Troy, NY 12180
> changb3 at rpi.edu
> 518.276.2366
>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> --
> Benjamin Chang
> Associate Professor, Department of the Arts
> Director, Games and Simulation Arts and Sciences
> Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
> 110 8th Street, Troy, NY 12180changb3 at rpi.edu518.276.2366
>
>
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-- 

*Molly Proffitt*IGDA Scholarships Coordinator

*IGDA Scholarships*Email: molly at igda.org | Website: *http://scholars.igda.org/
<http://scholars.igda.org/>*
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